Grimrock

SharinaDarkstar wrote:I don't think it is remotely fair that someone is supposed to spend perhaps weeks or months designing an elaborate dungeon in their own time out of the goodness of their heart only to have to give it away for nothing - especially as many people who download free stuff then seem to enjoy nothing more than to moan about it on forums and depress the hell out of the designer.

If you're serious about your modding, you should look upon this as a golden opportunity to show developers your skills so that you can later land a contract that pays you. Just a friendly reminder. Not all investments need an immediate monetary return, after all. The richest people in the world didn't get rich from their first employment, to put it that way.

if you REALLY wanted to compensate a modder then you can pm them for paypal info i would think. I myself hold editing challenges ... that way i basically commission dungeons of my choosing and 'pay' for the ones the community likes the best.

SP-0n3 wrote:I really didn't get the answer for this (and I'm sure there are people wondering this one too): Are voluntary PayPal links okay? This way those who really want, can drop few pennies for the modder, but it's not necessary at all. And how about this: Is it okay to put your download behind adf.ly links to get some minimal income from the ads? Of course, it would be more than good if modder also provided a link without it, so the mod/add-on can always downloaded for free (which is how it is in rules/agreement/policy/legal-thing), but people who want, can support the modder a little with small things like adf.ly links or PayPal.

I've seen this done for Minecraft mods and texture-packs. That way modders can get that very small income, mainly to just buy their beer or two for creating something enjoyable for the community to use for free, compensation for their work, if community chooses to do so (like I've said before, it's all how the downloader feels like, FREE is the way to go too if one wants it that way). It doesn't get anyone rich, unless community is HUGE and mod is very popular among masses.

So, incase I've been unclear: Everything is free like it should, but supporters will support if they want to do so for their own free will.

Actually, it was pretty clear in the usage agreement.
"You cannot charge money for your mod. Using voluntary donations or advertisements in moderation are acceptable on the websites used for distributing the mod but not within the mod itself."
This means that on your Nexus Mods profile, it is okay to have a donation button. It is alright to host your files through adfly.
It is not alright to have some sort of way to donate to you within your mod.
It is not alright to use your mod to direct people towards donating to you, or to suggest donating to you.

I don't believe that money should be the incentive for making a mod. If you really need to see a benefit from it (outside of just having fun and making something to share with others - the reason I like modding and drawing and podcasting for that matter), then I do think its unlikely you will be able to 'justify' the hours you put in.

However, I guess there are some benefits even outside of the money thing. Mods make for great portfolio pieces and CV entries for anyone looking to source work in the digital entertainment industry. Equally, it's a chance to learn and hone valuable skills that you can really only master through doing (modelling, level editing and programming). And hey, if you're really good, you'll likely get approached by a company with a contract / employment offer. Still, while those are pretty cool side effects, I don't think they should be the reason for doing modding - you're going to have to put hours and hours and hours in and probably in your spare time - you've gotta really love something to enjoy it after 6pm when you've already done a day at work!

@Neikun: Good spot. Looks pretty clear to me!

This is a question of whether you're running a brothel, or whether you're just running a hotel were people just happen to have sex. Just because they're paying for the hotel room, doesn't mean that they're paying for prostitution. It's fully possible, allowed and completely uninteresting for any developers whether you're earning money from your general trade as a modder.

What Petri refers to here (and I hope I'm not putting words in his mouth) is the association between a LoG mod and moneymaking, specifically - as you pointed out yourself. For instance, you're not going to be prevented from making mods just because you're known for earning money as a modder.

As long as your moneymaking can't be traced to a specific mod (in this case LoG), then nobody cares where and why you get your money (because it's a waste of time, since nobody knows it but you and the donator). Just don't advertice it to anyone, as that'd equate to leaking information. Similar to when closed Beta testers aren't allowed to say ANYTHING whatsoever about their testing - neither confirming, refuting or even the fact that they're even betatesting the game.

What the developers care about, is the idea that people can earn money from their game. That has some serious ramifications with regards to their reputation and spoiled kids nagging about not being able to do the same. At the end of the day, it's always the devs who get all the blame, no matter what it is. I've heard people saying that they're not gonna buy a game simply because of a mess caused by Nvidia or Direct X, or because they didn't get that special item that Preorder people got. Now imagine a full mod market and devs ending up with their beards stuck in the mailbox because modders are now competing with the devs themselves for the most exciting new content for the games. Nobody buy their expansion because they instead wanted to buy that massive ned mod that someone's been making a bunch of money on.

I'd call it territory infringement, personally. Plus, all devs know perfectly well that the best designers out there aren't the devs themselves, but rather the avid modders who don't have to waste time creating the big systems that run in the background. That gives an unfair advantage to the modder and the devs (and potentially the game) could potentially go bankrupt. Game development isn't a free enterprise, as some people seem to think. All games EVER made has cost money, either directly or in the form of time spent not earning money elsewhere.

So the rules exist to create a nice, equal environment for everyone. Just don't advertice it, directly or indirectly doesn't matter. Ads are ads. End of story.