Grimrock

Thels wrote:

Brude wrote:I'd like more balanced itemization. Most of the loot in this game favors melee based damage dealers. (My Mage has no pants!)

The items that support damage are few and far between for all three classes. Most items simply offer protection, and nothing else. Your mage can put on some leather pants and be fine.

A bit off-topic note:
Actually mages can use the same gear as rougues. In fact they have access to light armour a way sooner then rogues. During my second playthrough (a mage and 3 rogues) a Mage was wearing Chitin set and during my third playthrough (2 fighters, a mage and a rogue) a mage was wearing Lurker set.

Thels wrote:The items that support damage are few and far between for all three classes. Most items simply offer protection, and nothing else. Your mage can put on some leather pants and be fine.

Sure, and while I realize this is not a gear progression game, it's not really that satisfying to have a character low level items for the entire game (eg: the peasant's shirt, which is found on the first level).

Other classes and skill sets have many more options (with heavy armor users having arguably too many). So why nothing for mages?

leewroy wrote:I´m sure yo missed some stuff. There's a point where i had to leave some, it's not that rare

Look up the equipment lists on Game Banshee. There are no "cloth" armor sets, gloves, or boots specifically for mages. There's a hat, and that's it (and the hat isn't that good).

The stuff your Mage picks up by level 2 or 3 is the stuff they're wearing for the rest of the game.

Items that offer more than just protection:

The norm seems to be per slot:
- Several pieces of cloth armor (armor pieces neither light nor heavy that offer a minor protection bonus).
- 1 lurker set item.
- 1 piece of leather armor (light armor pieces that aren't part of the chitin set).
- 1 chitin set item.
- 1 piece of ring armor (heavy armor pieces that aren't part of the valor set nor the best piece outside of the valor set).
- 1 piece of plate armor (heavy armor pieces that aren't part of the valor set, but the best piece outside of the valor set).
- 1 valor set item.
Here's the exceptions:

Head:
Circlet of War - Strength +3.
Conjurer's Hat - Willpower +2.
Flarefeather Cap - Dexterity +2.
2 types of ring armor.

Chest:
2 types of leather armor.

Legs:
Loincloth - Willpower -1, Attack Power +1.

Feet:
Pointy Shoes - Dexterity +1.
Nomad Boots - Resist Cold +5.
No leather armor.

Hands:
Nomad Mittens - Resist Cold +5.
Pit Fighter Gauntlets - Strength +2, Attack Power +6 when unarmed.
No lurker set item.
No leather armor.
No chitin set item.



And here's the possible items for the other slots:

Offhand:
All shields offer +evasion. Here are the items that offer additional bonuses:
Shield of the Elements - Resist Fire +15, Resist Cold +15, Resist Poison +15, Resist Shock +15.
Shield of Valor - Strength +2, Resist Fire +20.

Back:
All cloaks offer +evasion. Here are the items that offer additional bonuses:
Diviner's Cloak - Energy Regeneration Rate +20%, Food Consumption Rate -10%.
Huntsman Cloak - Dexterity +1, Vitality +1.

Wrists:
Brace of Fortitude - Strength +1, Health Regeneration Rate +20%, Food Consumption Rate +20%.
Bracelet of Tirin - Protection +1, 15% faster cooldown for all actions.
Hardstone Bracelet - Protection +1, 20% higher Attack Power, 20% slower cooldowns
Serpent Bracer - Protection +2, Resist Poison +50

Neck:
Fire Torc - Resist Fire +50
Frostbite Necklace - Resist Cold +50
Spirit Mirror Pendant - Effects: Wearer gains experience points 25% faster



All the items that boost both physical and caster stats:
Lurker Hood - Evasion +5
Lurker Vest - Evasion +5
Lurker Pants - Evasion +5
Lurker Boots - Evasion +5
Nomad Boots - Resist Cold +5.
Nomad Mittens - Resist Cold +5.
Shield of the Elements - Resist Fire +15, Resist Cold +15, Resist Poison +15, Resist Shock +15.
Bracelet of Tirin - Protection +1, 15% faster cooldown for all actions.
Fire Torc - Resist Fire +50
Serpent Bracer - Protection +2, Resist Poison +50
Frostbite Necklace - Resist Cold +50
Spirit Mirror Pendant - Effects: Wearer gains experience points 25% faster

All the items that boost physical stats specifically:
Circlet of War - Strength +3.
Flarefeather Cap - Dexterity +2.
Loincloth - Willpower -1, Attack Power +1.
Pointy Shoes - Dexterity +1.
Pit Fighter Gauntlets - Strength +2, Attack Power +6 when unarmed.
Shield of Valor - Strength +2, Resist Fire +20.
Huntsman Cloak - Dexterity +1, Vitality +1.
Brace of Fortitude - Strength +1, Health Regeneration Rate +20%, Food Consumption Rate +20%.
Hardstone Bracelet - Protection +1, 20% higher Attack Power, 20% slower cooldowns

All the items that boost caster stats specifically:
Conjurer's Hat - Willpower +2.
Diviner's Cloak - Energy Regeneration Rate +20%, Food Consumption Rate -10%.



So there are a few more items that boost physical stats specifically than there are items that boost caster stats specifically. Few of them have much of use, though. Can you imagine how many characters will wear the Flarefeather Cap or the Pointy Shoes (and these are just as useful for missile/throwing weapon users)?

Basically:

Brude wrote:Other classes and skill sets have many more options

is simply not true. None of the classes is able to equip a lot of items that offer something useful outside of additional protection. Yes, I see your point where it would be nice to be able to equip a few more items, but that applies just as much to all the other classes.

You are right that there are much more "options" when it comes to heavy armor, though they aren't really options for those that have the heavy armor proficiency. They will pick up the items with the most protection. They're actually more of an option for those that do not have the proficiency, as they can consider "Do I want the extra protection at the cost of the evasion penalty?". Nonetheless, it actually costs 16 points in Armors to be able to equip these without penalty (and everyone can equip these with penalty), so these additional items exist as the benefit of that skill tree.

Light armor on the other hand is really sparse. There is chitin for four of the five armor slots, but outside of that set there are only items for the head, chest and legs slot, leaving chitin as the only feet option and nothing at all for the gloves slot. Chitin is really nice, but the other items are only 1-2 points better than chitin, making it pointless to reach light armor proficiency on more than one character (not counting fighters that continue to heavy armor proficiency). A little more diversity for light armor would be nice as well.

is simply not true. None of the classes is able to equip a lot of items that offer something useful outside of additional protection. Yes, I see your point where it would be nice to be able to equip a few more items, but that applies just as much to all the other classes.

Sure it's true. Look to your own post. At the end, you listed items that boosted base stats. Almost all of them are geared towards physical damage dealers (they're all +dex and +str items). There's one item in the game that has +willpower on it, discounting weapons.

I count armor as just as important as any other slot. Part of the fun is filling out the slots across the party and upgrading that gear over time.

A heavy armor gets upgrades gear three or four times over. Most Iron Door loot is targeted towards them. They also and have different options depending on their role, position, and stats.

A Mage could run through the entire mountain naked, save their hat, and not have it adversely effect the performance of their character to any great degree.

Brude wrote:Sure it's true. Look to your own post. At the end, you listed items that boosted base stats. Almost all of them are geared towards physical damage dealers (they're all +dex and +str items). There's one item in the game that has +willpower on it, discounting weapons.

Yes, I said there's a few more than there are caster items, but it's not like you can deck out a character in full damage boost gear.

During my run through my mage actually had much more upgrades than my rogue, since I prioritized my mage over my rogue on survival gear, what with her having less hit points and all. So my mage was getting the best cloth armor, passing the hand-me-downs on to the rogue, as well as the best resistance gear. The mage also had more weapon upgrades. The only specific items the rogue was getting was the Loincloth and the helmet.

Also keep in mind there are 2 physical damage classes and only 1 caster class, so it makes sense if there's about twice as many physical stat items.

Overall it would be nice to have more gear for both mages and physical damage dealers, as well as a few more light armor options.

Isaac wrote:

leewroy wrote:Well, my opinion is that Legend of Grimrock is a dungon crawler, and there's not a big reason for a shop inside a dungeon. If someone is planning to make a multiple dungeons game, I think it's better to create different modules for every dungeon.

This is my thinking ~generally... but recall EoB. There was no logical reason for a storefront in the Waterdeep sewer system... but there was a recovering encampment of dwarves, and they had a healer; they could have had an arms dealer, or someone who sold rations and equipment ~and it would have made sense (though for that game it wasn't really needed). Mods or future official campaigns could benefit from a merchant interface, for use in traditional stores as well as chance encounters with someone who will trade (money or items).

What I would like to see, is a community (and /or official) expansion of the realm ~to make it a bit more filled in like Lands of Lore and Realms of Arkania were.

Thanks for the back up on this to some degree, and I fully agree with you, I think a arms dealer would be far better than running into a shop, UNLESS the game was much bigger and had towns in it.

Good idea, not for the original campaiqn, but maybe upcoming sequels/expansions.