LVL 9 Game Killer

[rubereaglenest]

I have the same feeling of frustration. I think too this is a problem of design, so I wrote a letter to Almost Human, and because I get no response at all I will post it here as an "open letter to Almost Human about the forgotten skull":

Hi Almost Human:

I'm a happy customer through GOG, however right now I'm stuck at level
9 in the Object Riddle Room, the one with this solutions:

SpoilerShow

"Game's Bane, with head of steel" - Arrow or Quarrel of any type
"Tear of the Land" - Rock
"Severed Dread" - Skull
"Unraveller of Mysteries" - Any key

Well... I'm not the only one who has the same problem. I'm stuck here
forever because, I simply don't know where the hell I thrown the
skull/skulls at any dark hole. I'm not going to discuss if this is a
problem in design or not, but... simply I want to request... well...
better to recommend a solution for the next upgrade (humbly).

The solution is to provide an infinite source of this elements, or to
add more of them every where (I think more about the skull, stones are
well placed around the game, although more of them could not hurt, you
know there are terrible earthquakes from time to time, so it could not
be bad if new stones appear next to the player).

So... in level9 there are a lot of skeletons, but none skulls. The
skeleton warriors could drop an additional skull from time to time,
this could allow players to harvest them. And in the tombs at level 6
Trapped, there are skeletons in some niches, so is quite bad I could
not simply take one that I need soooo bad for this puzzle.

Well, it would be amazing if this could be solved for the next
upgrade, because... you know, I'm stuck, and I have only the desire to
abandon the game, and it's a pity because it is an excellent game, but
the level 9 is too much.

PD: If you could adjust the rate that the dinos respawn, this could
help a little, that was a bad experience, to kill dino after dino
without end.

PD2: Note I really love the game, but simply I have no the patience to
start over, at least, not at the present date.

So, to the other players and fans, keep in mind that every experience in the game depends of each play, so it's easy not to see the problem if you have not experienced it.

Regards,

Ruber.

[Thels]

While I admit it could be a problem if you forgot where you dropped your stuff (Hence the "Drop everything at the stairs" rule!), making Skulls drop randomly is not the solution. The only way the Head Hunter feat is somewhat kept in check, is by the scarcity of the skulls available in the game. If skulls appear as a random drop, they could be farmed, making the feat insanely strong.

I did not have the problem myself as I'm a pack-rat, and I had a Head Hunter anyhow.

However, what did you do with the skull you found on level 8?
Did you drop it right away? Then you should know where it is, namely, where you dropped it.
Or did you carry it with you for a while? If so, why? And why did you drop it later?

[PSY]

Well,

no offence...

But if people can't remember where they dumped their stuff, it's not about bad game design. It's about sloppiness. Period!

If you decide to get rid of your stuff, either
1. dump it at the staircases (best way)
2. dump it at the Crystals of Life
3. dump it where you're gonna find it later (pencil and paper are your friends...)

When I chuck my stuff somewhere in the house, it's not the bricklayer's fault if I can't find it later ^^


Cheers,
PSY

[rubereaglenest]

Keep in mind that there are several places where objects are susceptible of being useful of throwing them at plates beyond any hole. Indeed I have a place in the game where is a demon with a floor plate and a hole in the way, and I never could manage to solve the puzzle to reach that place... whatever.

And... it's impossible to remember where one may have dropped a stone or skull.

To dump objects in relevant places, is an strategy of advanced players. There are lots of causal players out there, you know, not all buyers were hardcore. This is not a complaint, I will use that tip in future plays.

I don't think I beg for an impossible thing, or something that breaks the game. I think it improves it. The sense of the puzzle is to discover the riddle. To wander or backtrack, or to reward a player for backpack every possible item, is not the core of the joy of the game or the joy of that puzzle in particular. So I think is pretty logic to add more rocks, or add more skulls, since the environment is full of bones, is full of enemies that "have skulls", and the game is full of skeletons made of bones and skulls. So...

Thanks for the discussion, because I think I remember now a place where I could search for the damned skull.

Ruber.

[Thels]

While it makes sense to find plenty of skulls down in the dungeon, adding more of them causes a serious imbalance without a revision of the Head Hunter feat.

Casual players are likely to go with the default party. The default party has a minotaur with the head hunter feat. Thus, the casual player will probably hold onto those skulls nonetheless.



Yes, I can understand your situation is frustrating. Still, by then you should have come across four skulls, or at least can backtrack to the location of four skulls. I think it's pretty rare to have misplaced all four of those.

[Disasterrific]

The skull is at the entrance. If you've lost it, it's your own fault.

You would have a valid point with the 2 rocks secret, but apparently you can use any thrown item (although this isn't obvious in the game). Still, I had plenty to backtrack for and found a secret or two on my way so it was worth it. It's not as if it takes longer than 5 minutes to go from top to bottom of grimrock once all the monsters are dead. Compare that to the aimless wandering you have to do in Skyrim for example, just to go forward.

[Kirinyale]

And... it's impossible to remember where one may have dropped a stone or skull.

It IS very much possible if you have a habit of saving to different slots on a regular basis. I'll illustrate this with a little story about me searching for a seemingly useless item after I learned that it isn't in fact useless.

Somewhat fortunately, I remembered exactly that I left that item somewhere in an alcove. That I bumped into it during some backtracking just today, then thought that I don't need it lying IN the alcove and looking like something I missed, took it out and put it on the floor near the same alcove.

But I didn't remember which alcove was that. Not even what floor it was on. So I went back through the whole dungeon (except first few floors - I was totally sure it wasn't there), looking near each and every alcove I could find. Nothing.

And then I felt really stupid, opened my save game list (numbered 101..200, with another hundred in a backup), and found it in 2 minutes. How? The good old "binary search", of course. First, just find 2 saves A and B, when in A you have the item, and in B you don't. Then split the A..B range in two and check if you have the item in the middle (M) save, and get another range to check (either A..M or M..B). And so on. Just a half-dozen steps, and you've got two adjacent saves, between which you've dropped the item in somewhere. Finding the exact place at this point should be easy.

Now, if you DON'T do separate saves on every occasion, then it is definitely not the developers' fault.

To dump objects in relevant places, is an strategy of advanced players. There are lots of causal players out there, you know, not all buyers were hardcore. This is not a complaint, I will use that tip in future plays.

I am very sorry, but after a few years working as a casual games developer, the word "casual" makes me feel really really sick. Please don't mention it anywhere near an "oldschool" game. No offense, but you should really understand that there ARE players who LOVE the possibility of getting stuck due to their own mistakes, and that there also are games which are meant primarily for these players. There is really no way to make both "hardcore" and "casual" players equally happy.

[Merethif]

Are you FREAKING kidding me?!!! A freakn Round Key...Really... I'm stuck here, at level 6, forever because, I simply don't know where the hell I thrown one of the Round Keys at any dark hole!!! So now I have to freakn backtrack through whole level looking everywhere for a damn Round Key.

I think next patch should include a way to inform future players that these Round Keys are required to open the gates so one can proceed to next level. Perhaps with a better item description when you place the pointer over the weapon or by finding a note under your first Round Key.

damn..maybe I will return after I complete Farmville or something...

Regards,
~Drama Queen

[Darklord]

Is this some sort of trolling joke Merethif?

Edit: Initially I wasn't sure if you were serious, but after reading your previous posts I know it isn't. It's quite funny, but others may think you are serious and start flaming!

So no trolling/flaming please.

Daniel.

[Thels]

Exaggeration is sometimes a good way to put things into perspective.