Grimrock

neotiger, several monsters have resistances to spell classes. Figuring out which is which is simply a matter of looking at the damage inflicted - generally it's 0 if there is resistance. So there is definitely a choice to be made, whether to invest deep in one class and do massive damage except to resistant monsters, or invest in more than one class so you do less damage later on but have a choice of spells in case of resistance. This decision-making is presumably why the system differs from Dungeon Master, and it's just as viable even if it's a different approach. I do think it could be further improved, but I like the core system. Once you get heavily invested in a particular class you can do enormous damage with a mage. I will always fire a spell off in preference to melee because of this, but that's because I developed my characters in a certain way and that's what works.

lastsaves wrote:I fully agree with both of you. I really like rune spell system.
I just got the feeling, that there are many people complaining about it and not enough saying otherwise.
The reason, why I created this poll, was to find out, how many people IS HAPPY with this system.
Because, I think there is a majority who like it, but did not post their opinion.
-snip-

Your train of thought shatters on one fact though. Not all players are also active in the forums. A majority will be content just playing the game. People who do go to the forums do that mostly for one of two reasons:
1. They'd like to engage into the community for whatever reason (modding, portraits, sharing experiences). This doesn't tip the scale much.
2. They are unhappy with the game in it's current state and want to complain. They will happily jump on any bandwagon that conveys this.

This heavily tips the scale towards the negative, since most of the players content with the system will not even be aware that there is a poll. In short, the data you collect with the poll is inaccurate and useless for the developers. It will only tell them that there are people who don't like the system, which is to be expected, since appealing to everyone is impossible.

BlueLegion wrote:
Your train of thought shatters on one fact though. Not all players are also active in the forums. A majority will be content just playing the game. People who do go to the forums do that mostly for one of two reasons:
1. They'd like to engage into the community for whatever reason (modding, portraits, sharing experiences). This doesn't tip the scale much.
2. They are unhappy with the game in it's current state and want to complain. They will happily jump on any bandwagon that conveys this.

This heavily tips the scale towards the negative, since most of the players content with the system will not even be aware that there is a poll. In short, the data you collect with the poll is inaccurate and useless for the developers. It will only tell them that there are people who don't like the system, which is to be expected, since appealing to everyone is impossible.

I am not quite sure about the composition of forum users. Actually when I am not satisfied with a game, I just do not play it, not complain about it in a forum.
But even if it was the case and there were only community types and complaining types of users, according to today result of the poll, there are almost seven times more people who are satisfied with spell system (as it is or with slight modifications).
So even if there are more complainers in a forum (as you implied in your post), the more significant is that poll result are in favour of current spell system.
And it might send a message to devs, that they did a good job and that the community does not want any major change.

Why no "add new spells" only option? The old don't really need tweaking IMO.

Disasterrific wrote:Why no "add new spells" only option? The old don't really need tweaking IMO.

Well, I did not want to make too many options, just to show whether people like or dislike the system in general.

lastsaves wrote:

BlueLegion wrote:
Your train of thought shatters on one fact though. Not all players are also active in the forums. A majority will be content just playing the game. People who do go to the forums do that mostly for one of two reasons:
1. They'd like to engage into the community for whatever reason (modding, portraits, sharing experiences). This doesn't tip the scale much.
2. They are unhappy with the game in it's current state and want to complain. They will happily jump on any bandwagon that conveys this.

This heavily tips the scale towards the negative, since most of the players content with the system will not even be aware that there is a poll. In short, the data you collect with the poll is inaccurate and useless for the developers. It will only tell them that there are people who don't like the system, which is to be expected, since appealing to everyone is impossible.

I am not quite sure about the composition of forum users. Actually when I am not satisfied with a game, I just do not play it, not complain about it in a forum.
But even if it was the case and there were only community types and complaining types of users, according to today result of the poll, there are almost seven times more people who are satisfied with spell system (as it is or with slight modifications).
So even if there are more complainers in a forum (as you implied in your post), the more significant is that poll result are in favour of current spell system.
And it might send a message to devs, that they did a good job and that the community does not want any major change.

I'm just trying to offer a different perspective here.
I wasn't saying that everyone who dislikes the game will come complain, just that these two reasons are the main reasons to join the forums. So yes, it is biased. That doesn't mean that all polls are gonna have a negative result. This just indicates that the system is fine as it is. After all, this game is not in alpha.

I was just trying to warn that the data might not be accurate or even useful. User feedback is most useful in very early development. Which is not what the game is at. And if the devs need feedback, they will get it. It is not up to us to provide them with feedback data, unless it's in development and they are asking. This is probably not the type of game that will keep updating regularly long after the release; the way minecraft works. So this is more or less the final product and will not be majorly changed in terms of mechanics.

I got it now, thanks for clarification.
I understand that this is final product, but I was kind of worried that devs might start thinking about some major spell system for LoG 2 or expansion and was trying to convey a message that there are some (actually most of) poeple, who like it the way it is.

I like the system but not the runes. Maybe I am spoiled by 24 years of Dungeon Master but I can not remember which rune is which.

I might be wrong but I do believe the tunes in Dungeon Master better reflect the elect they represent, easier to memorize. In Legen of Grimrock I memorize the positions of the runes, not the shapes of the runes.

This also mean they have less meaning to me, casting a fireball does not have the same emotional ties. It's a shame, since I do love the system.

My only suggestion for LoG spell system is to have it save the last used spell every time you open the rune page, I don't particularly care for having to redo the same spell on every cast as it gets tedious. Also more diverse spells would be nice as well, I never ended up trying Ice but they all did pretty much the same thing with a few variations but did you really end up using anything other than the starting spell and later on the bolt version?

The idea of the Spell System ALWAYS excited me, from the very beginning. Especially when I got my hands on the manual and saw what each rune stood for. In game, the balance of risk, prepare, and then damage output is always satisfying.

So the rune system itself, to me, isn't such a big deal. In fact I absolutely love it. However, there are two things I find lacking. Only two small things, one more a cosmetic complaint, and the other something I'm sure is already being addressed;

1) A Spellbook. Not for autocasting, as some people have suggested, since that just takes the fun out of it, (although the idea of a "remember last spell cast" option isn't bad). I just want a spellbook for writing down spells, so I don't have to constantly look them up online. Especially the enchant arrow spells are hard to recall on the fly, making it so I have to pause and go look it up. So an in game archive of learned spell patterns might be nice.

2) A somewhat lack of variety in the actual spells. Generally speaking, you have four spells for each element; a basic damager, a shield, an enchant arrow, and a more advanced damager, (IE, Ice Shards, Enchant Frost Arrow, Ice Shield, and Frost Bolt). Now that isn't bad at all, considering it gives you at least 3 or 4 playthroughs to see and master each of them. But after that, that's it. My main complaint is the underuse of Light, Dark, Life, and Death. For instance, I was a tad dissapointed to find there wasn't a heal spell. Before the game was released, I had thoughts of using said Heal spell even on enemies, to befriend them temporarily. Yet healing is delegated to potions. Likewise, there is no direct Dark or Death spell, like "Death Touch" or "Dark Bolt."

Now this is a somewhat minor complaint. "They don't have Dark spells, waaa", but to me, it makes the grid feel like it's underused. Runes remaining vacant the entire game. But it actually doesn't worry me too much, as as I said, I'm sure these are things that can be EASILY implemented in custom maps and future patches. Perhaps that's what the devs intended? That they give literally unlimited potential for their spell system, thus allowing custom maps to have their own unique spells?

I don't know, I just had to get my two cents in. Mainly about really wanting a death spell ;p But there it is.