More tactical combat.

[Jack Dandy]

Another thing I'd like to see is some more "player interaction".
Stuff that requires the player to be more on their toes, like-
-Attacking during certain animation frames will do more damage
-Block/riposte option some other players suggested as well
-having to dodge enemies with diagonal attacks...

[Hongisto]

Awesome ideas. There was some variation in combat, but still I felt it was a bit too little. It didn't ruin the game or anything, but could use some spicing up, like people said. Especially loved the damage trail and the AoE ideas. That would make movement and surroundings even more important than it is now. Maybe add enemies that place exploding runes or similar mines to that list. I also liked the limited ammunition the snakemen had in Dungeon Master 2, too. And once they ran out of arrows, they had to slither up to you and punch instead. And not sure how hard it would be to make, but a multiple-tile monster like a giant worm or something would be a horrifying thing to see. And varying weakspot enemies are always fun to tackle, as long as they don't become a chore to kill by being too plenty, etc.

[Lmaoboat]

Another thing I'd like to see is some more "player interaction".
Stuff that requires the player to be more on their toes, like-
-Attacking during certain animation frames will do more damage
-Block/riposte option some other players suggested as well
-having to dodge enemies with diagonal attacks...

I'm not sure if it's my imagination, but I have noticed that you can delay enemy attacks if you attack them right before or after they start the attack animation.

[Spathi]

edit:.. yeah that ^^

-An enemy that'll occasionally charge up a strong attack that will backfire on itself if you interrupt it with an attack.

If you look carefully it does this atm, in the sense that if you hit an nme they stagger and their attack is delayed/restarted. Maybe it is my beloved mace, but I noticed it.

my post from the other thread... many threads on this now, like four or more, lol.

The suggestion is to add a delay between clicking to attack and actually landing the attack. Before the attack, not a cooldown. So you would have to stay in the square longer for the mobs to get a chance to counterattack.

That is actually better than what I was thinking... this means you can still run past something, but if you want to land a blow you are mini-paused. You effectively control how slow you are by your actions.

With this method there is no way to avoid the large creatures though unless you always approach from behind, which is a problem. I think you still need to be able to eat/dodge a blow from an ogre or whatever while landing one. For this to work the hits from the ogre/creature would have to start at reduced damage and increase in intensity the longer you stood in the same square.

This could work even if there was no creature (he snuck up on you), you take full damage because you were in the square for more than a second or two.

[Cadmus]

Now these kinds of ideas, where you basically have the same combat system and the same game effectively, but spice things up by creating a variety of enemies that build on the specificities of the game in inventive ways like this, this is awesome.

You could still have the giant snails as we know them, and then a higher level variant that leaves a trail of damaging, corrosive slime behind its path, or golems that are built like ogres but require to have their plating smashed to then manually pick up exposed gears to weaken them and make them more prone to damage, etc. That's good.

[1varangian]

I would definitely like to see more strengths / weaknesses in the monsters.

+ considerations for damage types: slashing, blunt, piercing, fire, lightning, poison, cold etc. + more emphasis on attack power vs. armor (with the introduction of 2 handed weapons that are better against heavy armor)

For that to work the characters should be more well rounded though.. Warriors should be able to use non-specialized weapons without sucking horribly and Mages should have access to a wider selection of spells without sucking horribly at them.

Some enemies could also have auras that would damage the closest two party members at melee range and more if you circle strafe around them.

There could also be new Sign type spells to be used as traps on the floors. Both against monsters and players. Smarter monsters should know to avoid them but the mindless ones could be lured on a sign etc. And there could be another spell to hide / reveal the signs.

[oodyboo]

Excellent suggestions on how to improve combat without dismantling the current system. Bravo

[oodyboo]

In addition to your excellent ideas on monster abilities and characteristics, I think the tactical combat may also be improved with some changes to the way the attack interface works.

The movement dimension of combat (strafe dance) doesn't seem to be the weak part of tactical combat for me. I think the simplicity of the attack interface leaves some to be desired.

The pace of non-spell attacks seem strange to me, as you just click all the instant attacks as fast as you can then wait for them to pop up again while you strafe around.

If the interface complexity issues that many have reported having with mages can be spread out to the other classes it might help to create more consistent pace of combat, balance the classes from a UI/control perspective, and add some personality and variety to the way different characters attack.

Here's a few ideas in this vein, I'm sure they can be improved upon and may not all work well together. Some might be bad. Permutations welcome.

1) Have a grid of different attacks for all classes (as mages have their rune grid). Some of the options might be things like "attack to the left", "attack to the right", "attack ahead", and/or the skill-based special attacks like Kick, Volley, Bash, Flurry, Rampage, etc. They don't have to be complex rune patterns, and could be an option in addition to the current basic "attack" button. This may not be necessary in conjunction with the next idea either.

2a) For archery and throwing - player holds down right-click/attack to draw the bow and lets go to release an arrow. Attack damage could be related to hold duration, whether it's less damage for instant click attacks or bonus damage for holding the attack (the same thing .

This approach might also work for thrown/melee weapons, or even spells, e.g. hold right click on the cast button longer = use more mana and bigger fireball, let go to release fireball.

2b) There could be a minimum draw/hold time to fully draw a bow, or ready the throwing axe/hammer, etc. The minimum times could be relatively short and likely dependent on weight of weapon. (Crossbow could on the other hand be instant fire but require holding button to reload)

This seems like it would make some sense that swinging a two hander or throwing an axe would take a moment to ready, but it would also give the player a different sense of feel for different weapons. Right now there is no difference at all in the way I control my fighter and my rogues. I just click the button and they attack. They might as well all be the same 'class' as far as the way I interface with them. At least with a mage there is an actual difference in how the various spells are cast, so my two mages have different rhythms/feel.

3) one might counterbalance the added complexity by making the mage a teeny easier to control since the other classes will now also require some player time/focus to control their attacks. e.g. change fireball and other 3-rune attack spells to just use 2 rune clicks (like frostbolt) since they get cast so many times. Maybe the Greater versions could be 3-rune clicks if that seems too easy.


As a completely tangential comment: I love Mouse gestures, might be some room to consider those too.

[1varangian]

I don't think the combat can take much more clicking or especially holding down mouse buttons for ranged. It's already quite fast paced if you want all 4 to keep attacking.

That said, I would like the weapons to be split into L and R mouse buttons. (It's enough you can equip in inventory.) L for standard attack and R for special attack menu / grid. I'd like the energy costing special moves to be activated instead of random.

Likewise L button could be repeat cast for Mages.

[Megami]

I really like the blocking idea. Hopefully it can be implemented via mods later on.