The Mage-less Party?

[Saice]

The darkness also seems to affect the monsters too.

I thought that myself but the AI can be weird sometimes. But I swear they seemed to not notice me as much when I was all Ninja Darky McDarkerson.

[Drax]

It's purely anecdotal, but I was testing it out with some trolls and a dark corridor.

That sounds like the opening to a joke.

[Saice]

It's purely anecdotal, but I was testing it out with some trolls and a dark corridor.

That sounds like the opening to a joke.

I would not be shocked to find some monsters have better or worse view ranges based on lighting.

[r3sistance]

Interesting that enemy take lighting into effect, I wonder if that's for both torch and the light spell... tho you'd hope the invisible spell would also have an effect of course .

you don't need mages but unless you want to play the entire game in the dark somebody has to hold a torch, if your front line guys do it then they can't use a shield for evasion and if your rogue holds it you can't use bow and arrows.

Since I did not go missile or ranged this was not an issue. I usually had 1 rogue with a torch and the other with a shield.

Also as a side the dark is not so bad. Your eyes adjust after a few moments and you get fairly decent view distance. There was a we levels I did mostly in the dark for one reason or another.

Fair enough, once you know the game/dungeons it's probably not so bad tho first time through I'd just think it'd be harder to notice things like the hidden buttons in walls; is all.

[Saice]

Fair enough, once you know the game/dungeons it's probably not so bad tho first time through I'd just think it'd be harder to notice things like the hidden buttons in walls; is all.

It honestly is not so bad. You quickly learn that each tile set only has one or two spots were there will ever been buttons. I would just check walls one tile at a time checking the relevant locations for them. Basically step forward turn to wall check button locations if needed turn to other wall... step forward and repeat. Honestly I think that is one of the reason for my long play time on my first playthrough.

[Hissssa]

Ok first I have a question... what do you mean mages level up slowly? Give them a throwing weapon and they will be on par with xp. Hit each monster with 1 spell or 1 throwing weapon.

Resistances from the passive element trees along with the shield spells make those specific enemies a joke.

If you don't have a mage you are wasting a good deal of the treasure from the dungeon (something to bear in mind). There also isn't enough good armor for 4 melee types.

Having mages allows you to enchant your bolts/arrows and that makes them do a ton more damage.

Nothing in the game beats the power of a mage to freeze targets in place.

Mages are the best form of spike dps against tough groups of enemies or being trapped in a narrow corridor.

If you don't have a mage you can't use the orb that grants a continual light source (which is extremely convenient).

[Saice]

Ok first I have a question... what do you mean mages level up slowly? Give them a throwing weapon and they will be on par with xp. Hit each monster with 1 spell or 1 throwing weapon.

I think honesty he is running into the issue with when the mage runs out of juice you can go a few fights with him doing no damage (unless give them a rock or something). And no dmg means the mage gets half xp.

Resistances from the passive element trees along with the shield spells make those specific enemies a joke.

More or less true. I think the only one I would like to have had was the fire resist/shield but I got through the game mageless so its not a must have.

If you don't have a mage you are wasting a good deal of the treasure from the dungeon (something to bear in mind). There also isn't enough good armor for 4 melee types.

Yes there is enough good are for 4 melee types. I had two heavy armor guys a light armor guy and a clothy with no problems with armor. Heck there was extra light and heavy armor to spare that I abounded. Mages get a hat and a cloak Whoopy. And while they have a few nice weapons it is nothing to write home about.

Having mages allows you to enchant your bolts/arrows and that makes them do a ton more damage.

Did not use ranged attacks much so not really a huge plus in my book.

Nothing in the game beats the power of a mage to freeze targets in place.

Ice Fall Hammer and frost bombs do the same.

Mages are the best form of spike dps against tough groups of enemies or being trapped in a narrow corridor.

Debatable I was seeing hits of up to 200 with my main melee guy by end game even when completely out of energy that is something a mage can not do.

If you don't have a mage you can't use the orb that grants a continual light source (which is extremely convenient).

Convenient ... sure needed no not really I had so many torches by mid game I stopped picking them up.

[Banjur]

You could totally run with out mages.
But for any one out there who loves mages, I wouldn't take it personally, I am sure the same could be said about warroirs and rouges
That's one of the things I like about grimrock there is no set formula (you need one tank 2 DPS and a Healer or you fail)

One thing i will say in mages defense is they hit every thing on a tile not just one guy (handy for those groups of four/two dudes )
bombs do the same i know but i don't find too many of them

Personally I like mages, with only three classes not playing with one in the party would feel like getting to the end of the game and going
"meh i have missed 1/3 of the secrets and treasurer, but sure i don't really need them"
... But I want them

[Empyrean]

rouges

Just so you know, I hate you.

Rogues.

You could easily run a party with two Rogues on the back line; thrown weapons and bows are about equally viable. Mages are handy for taking torch management out of the equation, but they aren't absolutely required.

[Saice]

rouges

Just so you know, I hate you.

Rogues.

You could easily run a party with two Rogues on the back line; thrown weapons and bows are about equally viable. Mages are handy for taking torch management out of the equation, but they aren't absolutely required.

I have completed the game with 2 fighters up front 2 rogues in back and no range skills what so ever. Torch management is a non-issue there are so many on the walls you will never run out only need to keep maybe 2 on you at any given time just to be safe because most times when one is about to go there is one near by on a wall you can swap with. And even if you do lose all your light the dark is not as crippling as you might think.