Grimrock

Yep, I think solution to this is to make the buffer only 1 key at a time, so you free to cancel/change direction.

Halk wrote:

jfunk wrote:I understand that it may be frustrating, but your manual dexterity IS intended to be tested in games like this.

I disagree. I've been playing computer games for 30 years. I've rejected each and every 'twich' game I've come across as not enjoyable.

I never said you enjoy it, nor that you haven't been playing games for however long you feel makes your point somehow more valid. Just that the nature of this game DOES check twitch reflexes. I prefer turn based myself and stopped playing RTS's back around Starcraft 1 for that same reason...they just got too "fast" for me to keep up with.

None of these opinions change the fact that testing your reflexes IS an intended mechanic here.

All of that being said, I'm not trying to be inflammatory here. The objective of my post is to attempt to help those having this problem manage it and get through it. The "heartbeat" I'm referring to in this game is fairly slow. There really shouldn't be much of a barrier to entry here. I suspect those that are having trouble with this are actually trying to move TOO fast and that is what's getting them into trouble.

I understand that many would like a command queue, even if it were say only a movement or two long to alleviate the problem. I'm not arguing you shouldn't get said feature. That doesn't help people who are having a problem right now though, which is what I'm trying to do.

nychilly wrote:The timer based puzzles are probably the hardest in the game, amplified by the fact that there is a distinct buffering of movement. To play devils advocate though, I think changing it would completely destroy the design of the game itself.

Movement is well timed, in a set matrix of cubes. It is a key of how combat is done, and why you can easily get surrounded and boxed in. Yes you can enter keys faster than the character will move in the game, but if the character would move instantly to every press there is no way to balance out the enemies. Right now the game is completely even. My characters move as fast as your characters which moves relatively fast to certain and only slightly fast to some flying mob. The relationships are set to the designers exact specifications.

With instant presses how would you balance any of that out?

No idea, but every other game in this style I've played has done instant presses and it worked just fine for them. In any case I'm not necc asking for instapress, just as Halk suggests perhaps queue up one command so you can hit forward then as they move hit turn then as they turn hit left (or whatever, rather than having to wait for each movement to complete. This game (thanks to the tight timed puzzles) makes the interface feel like its own minigame you have to pass before you can complete the game itself which can't be right.

I assume the designers would like a consistent difficulty and experience for their game across all the players - these puzzles/interface delay are clearly causing a significant split in opinion/playability. Getting stuck on a puzzle because you can't figure it out is one thing. Getting stuck because you just can't master the foibles of the interface which is supposed to be effectively invisible after about 5 minutes playing really isn't nice. And SOME of us clearly are (and we only know about those posting) - thus there is something not right with the design because with a well designed game/interface that shouldn't happen.

jfunk wrote:None of these opinions change the fact that testing your reflexes IS an intended mechanic here.

All of that being said, I'm not trying to be inflammatory here. The objective of my post is to attempt to help those having this problem manage it and get through it. The "heartbeat" I'm referring to in this game is fairly slow. There really shouldn't be much of a barrier to entry here. I suspect those that are having trouble with this are actually trying to move TOO fast and that is what's getting them into trouble.

Heartbeat is a great way of explaining the concept... nice turn of phrase!

I'm still in disagreement that they're intending to test manual dexterity. We are of course trying to read the minds of the developers, neither of us can do anything but guess. However manual dexterity wasn't part of the genre as far as I can remember, until you got to the free flowing 3D games and the real time isometric ones. That's why I don't think it's an intended thing.

As far as me personally, I do find it a slight irritation "Oh, ok I moved and now I'm coming to a stop, I want to move forward again so I just need to wait until I come to a stop. Bah, too early" kind of irritation, and that's just when I'm moving about normally - something similar to using a bad keyboard. When it comes to doing the movement puzzles I've not found it that hard really, because I can turn on the concentration for that. I dare say if they get very complex later on I'll get more frustrated. The key thing was not turning.

So yes, stopping using the 'bad keyboard' would certainly make the game easier... but so would stopping playing the game by looking in a mirror or bandaging two of my fingers on each hand together...

jfunk wrote:
None of these opinions change the fact that testing your reflexes IS an intended mechanic here.

If its testing reflexes then it would be a manic key mashing puzzle. Its not, its testing your precise control of the UI which isn't reflexes in any way at all.

Thank you for making suggestions on how to get past this puzzle. However I still can't do it, still can't pin down a rhythm that I can hit the movement keys at to reliably make each press take. 'Dungeon Dungeon Revolution' anyone? Still can't work out at what point in the movement that I can press the next key. Still run out of time. I stll want to smash things, still want to cry.

Halk has decribed it perfectly: "Oh, ok I moved and now I'm coming to a stop, I want to move forward again so I just need to wait until I come to a stop. Bah, too early"

Several people have said the key thing is not turning, and I completely agree - turning slows you down and messes it up more than anything else. The problem is, when the first button you have to press is in front of you, then you have to sidestep, move forward a few, sidestep twice and TURN 180 cos the next button is on the wall behind you it becomes a nightmare.....

There's only a few more straws to clutch at...

Writing down the exact keys you need to press. Load the game, try it, load the game try it... it won't take a very long period of time to repeatedly try it...
Try holding down the movement keys. If you have to move 5 paces in one direction then the game will allow you to hold down the key without causing problems - because it simply ignores any movement command when it's not a valid time to issue one... that's the other edge of the sword that is having no buffer. I don't think that's very helpful though as I found moving by holding down keys more frustrating... but it's worth a shot.
Walk away from the PC and come back an hour later... again not ideal.. but sometimes a break helps get rid of raggedness.

I have faith the devs will fix this though, I genuinely don't believe they wanted to design a game where it felt like you were using a broken keyboard....

Halk wrote:Walk away from the PC and come back an hour later... again not ideal.. but sometimes a break helps get rid of raggedness.

lol...can't tell you how many times this has solved problems of all kinds for me in games. Whether it be a puzzle or some action sequence. After a break I come back and suddenly it seems much easier than it was before.

I think sometimes when you're trying something repeatedly, either a physical or mental challenge, you can get into a rut where you're just making the same mistake over and over again out of habit.

\o/

Finally managed to do the Gear key puzzle. I credit my success to a nice calming cup of tea. Not looking forward to the longer timed ones people are describing later on tho.

Actually, had some tea then I cranked every option in game down to the absolute minimum. Interestingly the game itself (apart from looking one step away from wireframe - not really lol) didn't run any differently or more smoothly etc, I move (when the keys listen lol) at the same speed, mouse look around exactly the same. The ONLY thing that changed was the response from the keyboard, and it still ain't great. I'm wondering if it is an issue on lower spec'd machines? You turn settings down and you get more time/can do it quicker - cumulative error perhaps?

Mine is (yes, I know, a laptop but it runs everything else just peachy, plus an upgrade ain't an option atm ):

Acer Travelmate 5720
Intel Core 2 Duo 2GHz, 3 Gig Ram
32 bit Windows Vista Home Premium, SP2
ATI Mobility Radeon HD 2400XT

Pipsissiwa wrote:However I still can't do it, still can't pin down a rhythm that I can hit the movement keys at to reliably make each press take. 'Dungeon Dungeon Revolution' anyone? Still can't work out at what point in the movement that I can press the next key. Still run out of time. I stll want to smash things, still want to cry.

I honest to God can't figure out what you're going on about here. I even went back in game to try to figure it out and still could never get this 'keys not taking' behavior to happen.

All I can figure out is that you simply must be pressing the keys too fast in frantic motions instead of calm controlled ones. Are you frantically tapping keys or are you going tap...tap...tap?

Only way I've been able to replicate the behavior you're... crying and smashing things over (your words not mine)... is to mash the button 3+ times while moving one single square. At that point the number you move can be a crap shoot yeah because that's not how movement works in this game. Hit the button, wait approx 1/3 of a second, and hit it again while you're in mid move. The movement is smooth as butter. Instead of complaining about the game's perfectly functional movement controls, try practicing them instead. And by practicing them, I don't mean keep doing the same thing over and over again. Try to listen to the advice people are giving you. Movements don't end up in a queue.

As for Halk talking about this being twitchy gameplay, I don't get it either. If anything, this game's movement is MUCH slower and giver the player much more time to think and react than the instant steps of the past. I'm not a fan of twitch gameplay, I stopped playing RTS games around the same time as you for the same reason. I find this game anything but frantic. The movement is slow, measured, and smooth in this game.

regomar wrote:

Pipsissiwa wrote:However I still can't do it, still can't pin down a rhythm that I can hit the movement keys at to reliably make each press take. 'Dungeon Dungeon Revolution' anyone? Still can't work out at what point in the movement that I can press the next key. Still run out of time. I stll want to smash things, still want to cry.

I honest to God can't figure out what you're going on about here. I even went back in game to try to figure it out and still could never get this 'keys not taking' behavior to happen.

All I can figure out is that you simply must be pressing the keys too fast in frantic motions instead of calm controlled ones. Are you frantically tapping keys or are you going tap...tap...tap?

Only way I've been able to replicate the behavior you're... crying and smashing things over (your words not mine)... is to mash the button 3+ times while moving one single square. At that point the number you move can be a crap shoot yeah because that's not how movement works in this game. Hit the button, wait approx 1/3 of a second, and hit it again while you're in mid move. The movement is smooth as butter. Instead of complaining about the game's perfectly functional movement controls, try practicing them instead. And by practicing them, I don't mean keep doing the same thing over and over again. Try to listen to the advice people are giving you. Movements don't end up in a queue.

As for Halk talking about this being twitchy gameplay, I don't get it either. If anything, this game's movement is MUCH slower and giver the player much more time to think and react than the instant steps of the past. I'm not a fan of twitch gameplay, I stopped playing RTS games around the same time as you for the same reason. I find this game anything but frantic. The movement is slow, measured, and smooth in this game.

I've made several references to the fact that I am NOT mashing keys or typing fast. I thought I have described what I have been doing pretty clearly. I'm doing everything everyone is telling me and although cranking down all the game settings makes it a bit less noticeable it is still there. Hubby had a go too and found the same thing. For ME the controls are not "perfectly functioning", and it appears I am not the only one. The MOVEMENT yes is smooth, when my party responds to my key presses that is. It only really notices on the timed puzzles, and NOT because I am mashing keys. Even trying to do it 'slow and measured' is difficult and results in key presses not taking. Lucky you if yours works so nicely. Unless you are trying it in on my machine and its works for you ON MY MACHINE, you can't tell me its just my technique. Just because YOU are not noticing a problem does NOT mean the rest of us aren't experiencing it. I was delighted when other people were saying the same thing - then I KNEW it wasn't just me. And to be honest, if it is down to technique then that isn't any better than it being a bug - the UI of a game (especially one like this) should be simple, intuative and become effectively invisible after a few minutes play. I've been playing for days and I still keep having issues.

Coming onto a thread where several people are clearly noticing the same problem and then saying their problem doesn't exist because YOU don't notice it is utterly unhelpful.

And I'm not ashamed of my admission about getting frustrated so please don't be sarcastic at me over it. I am entitled to feel that way.

I repeat, just because some people are finding this happening, IT DOESN'T MEAN THE ISSUE ISN'T THERE FOR THOSE OF US MENTIONING IT.