Is LoG 2 unbalanced like LoG 1?

[sokafootball]

Hey folks! I'm new here, i finished LoG 1 recently, i had a blast running through the game the first time, but i found a big lack of replayability due to the fact that there is basically no balance between the classes and skills (defence being totally useless, mages being subpar to other classes).

The game is replayable of course if you want to find all the secrets and unlock all achievements, but there is no enjoyment in beating the monsters the second time becasue the way you engage them will be the same, and very, very easy and simple.

So i heard LoG 2 is a huge improvement over LoG 1 and i believe it is, i am just wondering how is the combat and and skill balancing before buying it.

Thanks.

L.

[minmay]

Similar situation to LoG1 balance. Protection is easier to get but still bad imo. You do actually want to wear heavy armor without training armor now, though, because getting meaningful evasion is literally impossible. The DPS gap between weapon skills is still huge (like LoG1 swords/daggers vs. axes/maces). Invisibility makes almost every monster in the game harmless and is still unlimited. Monster AI is totally different; players have significantly more control over its actions now, and the overwhelmingly best way of positioning nearby monsters sets up free backstabs against almost every monster it works on (which is most monsters). Combat is fundamentally the same aside from that. Honestly, I can't think of any dungeon crawler with challenging or balanced combat. I'm not sure one exists. Though Grimrock 2 is moddable to the point where you can make challenging and balanced combat without much implementation difficulty, just design difficulty.

All classes have access to all skills, so classes are just a set of other bonuses and have pretty small effects (like +1 strength per level or faster special attacks), so the effect of the imbalances between them is small.

As an aside, I disagree that mages were subpar in LoG1, because frostbolt and invisibility were insane.

[sokafootball]

Well thank you for the answer, very informative!

I never tried invisibility in Grimrock 1, simply because there is no need for any strategy when you can destroy almost any threat within 1-2 rounds of attacks from 4 rogues fully weapon specced.

[Isaac]

Honestly, I can't think of any dungeon crawler with challenging or balanced combat. I'm not sure one exists.

I wasn't under the impression that any of them were supposed to be. It's not an RTS genre; not an FPS one ~(first person stabber).

Combat is a puzzle impediment for dungeon crawlers. You lose by attrition; but you are expected to usually win single encounters ~almost always, unless you lose control or back into a blind corner; or manage to get overrun, and the middle of the room becomes a box with enemies on most or all sides. Even RPG titles are like this somewhat, as those games involve dialog/and a bit of puzzle gameplay at their core; as opposed to enemy elimination like RTS/FPS. Constant death can be arbitrary and cause the player to have to retread past steps again and again, to reset their past action; and they will lose interest if that happens constantly. In RTS/shooters, you just respawn and jump back in the fight.

So the enemies are in the way, and the path to improvement, but are less the challenge itself, and more like animate loot sacks... Boss Fights partly exempted.

*The mimics are the enemy ideal... walking loot crates; but I can't imagine they are intended to challenge the party; only nibble away at them ~as with everything else roaming the dungeons. The point is [should always be] the map itself, not the fighting monsters in it.

[LiveInABox]

Hey folks! I'm new here, i finished LoG 1 recently, i had a blast running through the game the first time, but i found a big lack of replayability due to the fact that there is basically no balance between the classes and skills (defence being totally useless, mages being subpar to other classes).

The game is replayable of course if you want to find all the secrets and unlock all achievements, but there is no enjoyment in beating the monsters the second time becasue the way you engage them will be the same, and very, very easy and simple.

So i heard LoG 2 is a huge improvement over LoG 1 and i believe it is, i am just wondering how is the combat and and skill balancing before buying it.

Thanks.

L.

Can you tell me why defense is useless in Grim 1? I hear evasion is by far the most important and protection is useless, so basically I shouldn't bother wearing protection based heavy armor as that takes away evasion (unless I have armor trait which will need points)?

[sokafootball]

I just finished grimrock 1 at hard difficulty without relying on any armor or defensive skills.

Basically dodging attack is very easy in this game, and investing all points in 1 weapon skill for each party member allow you to kill enemies in short time, so you wont even have to dodge them that many times.

[Dr.Disaster]

I just finished grimrock 1 at hard difficulty without relying on any armor or defensive skills.

Basically dodging attack is very easy in this game, and investing all points in 1 weapon skill for each party member allow you to kill enemies in short time, so you wont even have to dodge them that many times.

That's why it got changed in LoG 2.

In LoG 1 top protection is about 80 which is a bit weak. In LoG 2 top protection is around 135 which is quite fair.

LoG 1 Evasion can go way beyond 50 making it overpowered; you become virtually untouchable. In LoG 2 Evasion is less effective and much harder to come by. Without dex elixir investment the best you can reach is mid-50's using a ratling/knight going dex/dodge all the way plus some specific unique gear. On top of that several monsters in LoG 2 have more than one attack per roll which increases their chance to get past Evasion.

[sokafootball]

When i say dodging i mean manual dodge, not evading with the passive stat.
By manual dodging you just don't get attacked, so increasing the effectiveness of armor doesn't change the fact that not being attacked it's still the best defense mechanism, considering that also doesn't require you any equipment/skill investment, allowing you more customization and more damage.

To balance the mechanic they should make it so that one can't dodge manually that easily.

Some mobs in LoG 1 do a side attack when you try to flank them, but that is just a small start, becasue players can still wait the monster to start moving in the square in front of them, land all their attack before the animation end, strafe, rinse and repeat.

L.

[Dr.Disaster]

Of course moving is still the best way to prevent being hit. Yet you might find it a bit more frantic in LoG 2.

[sokafootball]

That is good to know!

Thanks for the info, I will probably get the game when it gets on sale on GOG or steam.

L.