My reviews of Grimrock 2 Custom Dungeons

[coreystinson]

I thought I would drop a thread in here to review custom campaigns for Grimrock 2. Similar threads were helpful for me in picking out custom campaigns to play for the Grimrock 1 engine.

Now, on to the first review.

~ ~ ~

* The Legend of the Lost Dwarf Kingdom of Kahrak'arul

I suppose this might be the first finished, campaign length custom dungeon for Grimrock 2. As such, you can be guaranteed many hours of play time. This campaign features outdoor and indoor areas. You will have lengthy forays underground, especially as the campaign progresses. Campaign is extremely linear, often even within levels. Due to the lengthy dungeon forays you may find yourself for an extended period of time without access to items you may have dropped, so think carefully about what you choose to carry and what you choose to drop. I would talk about the back story for the campaign, but there really isn't much of one to this module. That is one of its weaknesses which I'll cover later. I took a party up to Level 12.

Strengths:

- Puzzles! The author clearly invested a lot of time working out some puzzles, challenging enough but none so unusually devious as to ruin the fun. This is the #1 strength of this campaign. Very nice work.

- Nice dungeon layouts, author has a solid grasp of the layout mechanics and dynamics of the game engine. You will feel as at home in them as you would in the original campaign. The Pyramid levels were exceptional and possibly even better than the Pyramid area in the original Grimrock 2 campaign.

- Large campaign, use of a variety of Grimrock 2 tilesets plus some from Grimrock 1 and one third-party tileset.

- Several well-done boss fights.

Weaknesses:

- Not a lot of healing crystals throughout the game. If you don't have an alchemist you will be in for a very tough slog.

- It seems to me that, even on the Normal difficulty setting, many of the monsters were more challenging to fight than in the original campaign. They also seemed to inflict more damage. I'm guessing the author in many cases increased monster hit points? I'm not sure if their damage abilities were increased as well, or if it was my lack of good armor throughout the campaign that resulted in my front row receiving more damage.

- Not a lot of items and armor - Given the size of this campaign, a better job could have been done providing the player with a variety of weapons, armor, and items to play with. Instead, my characters got quite powerful weapons about halfway through the campaign. They used these until the end. My characters were under-armored right up the end, and even then only one character was fully equipped with the best armor for his class. I suppose it is possible that i missed some secrets but I think not THAT many.

- There is one third-party tileset used here which was also used in some Grimrock 1 custom campaigns. It looks extremely crude and badly out of place when compared to the tilesets produce for the game by Almost Human. I get that this tileset is taken from or a throwback to some other older CRPG but, please, folks stop using this tileset. It's jarring!

- Lame background story - the background story for the campaign, such as it is, is underdeveloped and even what is there is poorly integrated into the campaign. There is at least one portion of the campaign (Test of the Initiate) that is a very lengthy dungeon crawl and seems to have nothing to do with the main campaign. It's almost as if this "side quest" was originally developed for Grimrock 1 then ultimately integrated into this Grimrock 2 module without much thought. Much about how the campaign progresses makes little sense, such as transitioning from the lowest level of the Catacombs (under the cemetery) out into some sewers, but what are these sewers underneath of? We never find out.

- Lack of serious approach - This somewhat relates to the backstory issue. The author was clearly not that concerned with a campaign that "plays is straight", embracing the fantasy cliches of this genre and suspending the player's disbelief. Instead, the game characters frequently banter in ways that suggest they're aware they are inside a CRPG. I get that this was an attempt at humor but it was highly annoying for me and takes away from the fantasy element. Occasionally it descends to the level of being juvenile. I definitely don't recommend this approach for other custom campaign creators. The ending is a massive disappointment.

SUMMARY: author has excellent grasp of game engine mechanics and has employed them to create a large puzzle and monster filled adventure. Dungeon layouts are always interesting. However, the back story for the campaign, as well as the player's interaction with this story, is poorly-handled. If you like your campaign drenched in atmosphere, mood, and storytelling then you will be disappointed here. For the record, Grimrock 1 and 2 original campaigns both fall a little short in this area, so we can only offer up so much criticism here.

Only one bug of note, the "Walk Every Tile" puzzle. Work-around in the author's thread for the module. I also noticed some odd behavior in the "Show me what you seek" puzzle, but it may have been somehow intentional.

[Batty]

some other older CRPG

You actually don't know?

[hyppyp]

Dear coreystinson,

It's always nice to see someone take the effort of a review. In this case I am, sorry to say, not really interested to read your next one in this thread.

Of course a review is a personal statement, so it's not a wonder that I might have a different opinion about the tilesets, the 'lame' story and especially the 'humour' of The Legend of the Lost Dwarf Kingdom of Kahrak'arul. Maybe you haven't played Dungeon Master or/and the Eye Of The Beholder games. In that case it's ok to call it 'lacking serious-approach' and 'juvinile', although even without the nice references I found many remarks witty, and at times useful!

But the annoying part In my humble opinion regard a couple of 'weaknesses':

- not enough crystals
- monsters are more challenging than in the original game
- not a lot of items and armor

I guess you found the mod too hard to play. If you do, just say so. Using single arguments that add up to this conclusion and call them 'weaknesses' is a bit too simple and arbitrary to put it mildly.

Anyway, I just needed to get this off my chest Good luck with your second review!

[coreystinson]

It's all just opinions. Getting annoyed by them is probably a waste of your time. When doing the review and citing things I consider a "weakness" I'm comparing, for the most part, to the standard the main game campaign establishes. Naturally it would be a challenge match the quality of the main game's campaign but I played several mods for Grimrock 1 that were quite close in quality, so it can be done. Yes, I did play Eye of the Beholder about two decades ago. I apologize if I don't remember the intricacies of it at this point. I didn't find the mod "too hard" to play. I was able to complete it without too much trouble, although I did feel I was doing more saving and restoring than in the main campaign, probably due to balance issues. As I stated in the review, I do enjoy these types of games the most when the player is immersed in the fantasy/story without being drawn away by goofy humor and the like. So, my reviews will reflect playing from that perspective. You are welcome to take the time to write your own review from your perspective.

[Frenchie]

What I miss in your review is certain amount of respect towards the author. The lame and lack talk do not help. A review should be more objective and not a personal opinion. Until you have played several LoG2 modules you can compare strengths and weaknesses. LoG2 modules are a grow and learn situation. The new LoG2 dungeon editor has great potential. Whether they are updated and improved depends solely on comments from players not disrespectful reviews.

[cromcrom]

@ coreystinson, I can't believe it. How dare you criticize ("weaknesses") mods and modders ? Have you done one already ? Throw it in, I will "review" it.
Do you get a degree about criticizing mods and modders' work, you know, the free stuff those guys spend tens, hundreds, or even thousands of hours doing, on their free time, so that people can freely enjoy it ? Do you have even the slightest idea of the work involved, so that arrogant people like you can "critisize" it ! That really upsets me. Not even a "IMHO" before or after "weaknesses" ?
So do everybody a favor, especially youself, so you don't look like an arrogant prick, and do not criticize mods. Give only the pros, encourage modders, but do not dare criticizing modders. And if you think a mod isn't worth it, just don't talk about it.
If you want to help modders, and spend time showing your appreciation, instead of being a jerk, you can seriously hunt bugs and report them, and give positive feedback and reviews, instead of acting like a self proclaimed "specialist".
Goddammit !
Period.

*a better job could have been done providing the player with a variety of weapons, armor, and items to play with
* It looks extremely crude and badly out of place when compared to the tilesets produce for the game by Almost Human.
*the background story for the campaign, such as it is, is underdeveloped and even what is there is poorly integrated into the campaign. *The author was clearly not that concerned with a campaign that "plays is straight", embracing the fantasy cliches of this genre and suspending the player's disbelief. Instead, the game characters frequently banter in ways that suggest they're aware they are inside a CRPG. I get that this was an attempt at humor but it was highly annoying for me and takes away from the fantasy element. Occasionally it descends to the level of being juvenile. I definitely don't recommend this approach for other custom campaign creators. The ending is a massive disappointment.
*However, the back story for the campaign, as well as the player's interaction with this story, is poorly-handled. If you like your campaign drenched in atmosphere, mood, and storytelling then you will be disappointed here.

Daffuck. Do your own mod, because let me remind you, that you too, is potentially an " other custom campaign creators".(I write "potentially", because it takes hard work, dedication, time, passion to create a mod, all stuff you potentially don't have.)
Geeeesh.

[Drakkan]

I think cromcrom was little rude, but I hope you got the main point :d I think the main problem of your review is you are stating many thing from your own perspective and you are not objective. Also you are stating some things, which are not true in general (statements like: "I definitely don't recommend this approach for other custom campaign creators ". I do not think you have "right" to suggest something like this to other creators. And it is not true, because it could be good approach in some mod.
And this can (and already did) piss off many hardcore RPG fans and moders.

I am welcoming any reviews, because it sometimes can save some time which mod to play / which not, so maybe you should do review in this way - give players reasons why he SHOULD play the mod (general things you have liked...) and give him reasons why NOT to play it (too difficult for regular players, why, etc...). you are calling it strenght / weaknes... ok, no prob with that. However I would avoid stating your personal feelings and be more objective, because you are making the review for OTHER players. If you want share your feeling what you like / dont like or if you want give creator some tips how to improve his dungeon from your perspective, do it - go to the dungeon main thread and suggest it to him. But do not call it a review
to cromcron: I think just concentrate on saying good things is good...but in case some mod sucks, I rather to hear the truth (speaking generally). I understand it could discourage some modders, but I think smart person will take something even from bad criticism.
D.

[cromcrom]

Drakkan, I thouroughly agree with you.

I rather to hear the truth

the truth ? Like in "The Truth ?" Since when is a random guy's opinion "the truth" ?
You know what it is to create a mod, don't you.
However, I agree with you, some mods are either bugged beyond repair (my mod for Log2, actually), or inconsistent or whatever. I really thnk mod "reviews" should concentrate on what is good, and if nothing is good, there should be no review, instead of negative breakings. After all, mods are free. Mods are benevolent shared hard work. It is all about courtesy. At no point, in this random guy's "review", do I read:
Hey, first of all, thank you so much for doing this mod, and sharing it with us. (... lazy asses that will review it and give it bad grades if it doesn't live up to our standards...).
What about the list of "pros" is so short, and the list of "cons" so long ? I mean, a mod user should be thankfull for every steps it takes in a modded dungeon, every custom script it encounters, often without even knowing it, every modded monster, every item, every thing.

This basic free user/modder courtesy, and I would say, basic life behavior. When you receive a gift, you at the very least thank for it.

I think cromcrom was little rude,

Naaaah, I was very mild mannered, trust me...

And if you want to "comment" a mod, go to the mod user's page or whatever, tell him what you think, he will probably be very gratefull for your feedback and spent time, but please, do not give "critic reviews".

[coreystinson]

What I miss in your review is certain amount of respect towards the author. The lame and lack talk do not help. A review should be more objective and not a personal opinion.

Come now, in truth all reviews are personal opinions and there will always be someone who disagrees and is butthurt about it. cromcrom's level of nerdrage, for example, is hysterical. In fairness, I did compliment the author on all aspects of the campaign that I thought were strong, and there were several.

Until you have played several LoG2 modules you can compare strengths and weaknesses.

Except that I wasn't really comparing the custom campaign to other custom campaigns, but comparing it to the standard set by the main campaign. I saw plenty of examples of custom campaigns for Grimrock 1 where the author successfully captured, and in some cases here and there even exceed, the main campaign's design.

In summary, I am not writing a review for the other custom modders in the clique here. I'm writing in for casual players who come to the board and need the wheat separated from the chaff. This module is worth playing today, six months from now it will not be, as other talented modders will step in with their entries which will be as strong on the puzzles and design, and much better on the story immersion.

[minmay]

Wow, you must really hate film and art critics! Someone generously takes the time out of their day to give detailed feedback on a mod, and you go ballistic because they aren't kissing enough ass. You hold time spent modding in such high esteem, but apparently you don't care about the time spent giving feedback. I'm sure the film Proud American took thousands of hours of work, it was still crap.

Personally I'm of the opinion that all the mods released for Grimrock 2 so far have been very poor, except maybe Grimrock Unlimited and it's only interesting for technical reasons. I wouldn't have been nearly as positive reviewing any of them. I've put lots of time into modding, and various other projects, and I would much rather get honest feedback than the pointless ass-kissing I see around here, the replies in most mod threads (mine included) are utterly useless to the author and anyone else.