Dev Team: Whats the Verdict on Linux version?

Talk about anything related to Legend of Grimrock 2 here.
deusexm1
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Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 7:28 pm

Re: Dev Team: Whats the Verdict on Linux version?

Post by deusexm1 »

nottorp wrote:
Dr.Disaster wrote:
nottorp wrote:On which I can't play Grimrock 2 either.
Nitpick: only true if you insist on a native port. Yet other Mac and Linux users already play LoG2.
Thank you, I am capable of compiling custom Wine versions to run more stubborn games under emulation, and have done so in the past. Running stuff under stock Wine is even easier, of course. However I'm probably older and more stubborn now, so I will vote with my wallet.
And thats how it should be. I on the other hand dont even have the technical knowledge to compile programs. I just expect things to work, especially if i paid for them. So now all i buy is whatever steam games have linux support.

Tux is awesome.
vlzvl
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Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:22 pm

Re: Dev Team: Whats the Verdict on Linux version?

Post by vlzvl »

And thats how it should be. I on the other hand dont even have the technical knowledge to compile programs. I just expect things to work, especially if i paid for them. So now all i buy is whatever steam games have linux support.
While i agree on this, my aggreement goes mostly to performance rather on Platform-wise.
Personally, i'm developing in Windows, Lubuntu, OSX ML, Android and all i can see is a gigantic battle between Windows vs Linux. Almost everything except Windows X is some Linux version. Everything it boils down to some modified Linux stuff.
Everyone is choosing Windows because obviously there is the big $$$ and that's understandable, especially if you built your 3D engine based entirely on DirectX from the very, very start to support the numbers of PC gamers. But notice Windows and their DirectX is a dead-end in nowadays world of cross-platform. Windows are closing themselves slowly (Windows 8+ OpenGL support, XNA and Windows Phone).
Simply choosing OpenGL/GL ES/AL/SL is just a lot easier for porting nowadays than relying on some emulation of some other graphics API, their company of which doesnt like cross-platformity; its hilarious.
Windows as always don't want to cooperate but that doesnt mean i'm going to buy a Wine game and call it a port, even if it runs better, which i disagree, since the code is going down to native code, but with some extra layers, the DirectX awful interfaces.
Also, believe there are lots of users still using Windows XP. I can develop a game in OpenGL and let them play it, but you can't develop something in DirectX 11 and let them play it, which is hilarious. Get the point?
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Dr.Disaster
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Re: Dev Team: Whats the Verdict on Linux version?

Post by Dr.Disaster »

vlzvl wrote:Also, believe there are lots of users still using Windows XP. I can develop a game in OpenGL and let them play it, but you can't develop something in DirectX 11 and let them play it, which is hilarious. Get the point?
Absolutely. DirectX 10+ would exclude most of the older systems. Yet this can also happen with OpenGL i.e. OpenGL 4.x won't work with the very common Intel HD 3000 GPU build into Intel's 2nd gen iCore's.

Anyway i'd like to see OpenGL support to return in LoG; mostly for screen quality reasons.
badhabit
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Re: Dev Team: Whats the Verdict on Linux version?

Post by badhabit »

vlzvl wrote:But notice Windows and their DirectX is a dead-end in nowadays world of cross-platform. Windows are closing themselves slowly (Windows 8+ OpenGL support, XNA and Windows Phone).
Looks like Valve prevented this successfully with the political manoeuvre SteamOs, the PC will stay the open platform it was the last 20 years. (note platform: while Linux is open it's not a platform)
vlzvl wrote: Simply choosing OpenGL/GL ES/AL/SL is just a lot easier for porting nowadays than relying on some emulation of some other graphics API, their company of which doesnt like cross-platformity; its hilarious.
First, OpenGL solves not all problems for linux app/game development (it's just the graphic part), other parts are in horrible state as recently even stated by Torvalds and even OpenGL has problems on its own (e.g. lagging behind driver support for actual features, general bad quality GFX drivers under linux, lagging behind of opengl behind DX design wise etc).
vlzvl wrote: Windows as always don't want to cooperate[...]
No true, Microsoft gets on board with open source
vlzvl
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Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:22 pm

Re: Dev Team: Whats the Verdict on Linux version?

Post by vlzvl »

First, OpenGL solves not all problems for linux app/game development (it's just the graphic part), other parts are in horrible state as recently even stated by Torvalds and even OpenGL has problems on its own (e.g. lagging behind driver support for actual features, general bad quality GFX drivers under linux, lagging behind of opengl behind DX design wise etc).
Of course. OpenGL compete directly with DirectX but only on graphics level. But note that i wasn't referring only to this but as well on other open-specification stuff.
There is OpenAL for sound, which is supported everywhere, even MacOSX has it as a core technology. Also Khronos (etc. the org behind OGL) supports a new specification named OpenSL ES for embedded systems which should be considered the de facto way for handling audio on mobiles, although its on very early stages but i can assure you it works. Also where OpenGL is not natively supported, there's a limited set called OpenGL ES, which is used mostly on mobiles (etc. embedded systems) but also on browsers (WebGL),
Although there are technical issues, one can't deny that OpenGL is everywhere. Of course it has problems, every api has problems,still the true bitch is to not have an api to work with. The lagging you say, yes probably it has to do with drivers. The best drivers are always developed for Windows, not for Linux or OSX or whatever, which translates for better performance on PCs, i can't disagree with this. Though, i can accept a performance hit if that means i won't change my graphics base code across several platforms.
No true, Microsoft gets on board with open source
Are you sure? ask Microsoft why disallows OpenGL drivers on Windows 8+, XNA and Windows Phone if she likes cooperation. Also, who cares about C#, a mostly web-development language and a product of Microsoft. Also, how this is called cooperation? It seems to me that Microsft just wants to increase their C# usage on systems using mostly C/C++/Obj-C.
I find it difficult that a seasoned game developing company that uses mostly C/C++ for obviously performance reasons across all systems will feel relieved that Microsoft went into open-source with ..C#.
Cooperation should mean allow drivers from other companies run into your OS, not releasing a product of yours into other OSes for a piece of the cake etc. C# usage.
Heck, Microsoft doesnt even cooperate with their own products, Windows 7 can't fully use even DirectX 11.1, you know, and i sense this is only the start.
Azel
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Re: Dev Team: Whats the Verdict on Linux version?

Post by Azel »

vlzvl wrote:
No true, Microsoft gets on board with open source
Are you sure? ask Microsoft why disallows OpenGL drivers on Windows 8+, XNA and Windows Phone if she likes cooperation. Also, who cares about C#, a mostly web-development language and a product of Microsoft. Also, how this is called cooperation? It seems to me that Microsft just wants to increase their C# usage on systems using mostly C/C++/Obj-C.
I find it difficult that a seasoned game developing company that uses mostly C/C++ for obviously performance reasons across all systems will feel relieved that Microsoft went into open-source with ..C#.
Cooperation should mean allow drivers from other companies run into your OS, not releasing a product of yours into other OSes for a piece of the cake etc. C# usage.
Heck, Microsoft doesnt even cooperate with their own products, Windows 7 can't fully use even DirectX 11.1, you know, and i sense this is only the start.
For starters, trying to debate with that poster "badhabit" is a complete waste of time, he isn't very knowledgeable and prefers to argue in circles rather than apply some smarts. But I digress...

I have been making money as a C# Developer for quite a long time, and you are exactly right. Microsoft doesn't really care about Open Source, they just won't come out against it because that would be a terrible marketing/PR move. Microsoft has always enjoyed being a closed system and has no plans to divert from that path any time soon. There's no reason to anyway, the open market has room for everyone - and there are pro's and con's to both sides of the Software community.

With that said, I still firmly believe that if somone wants to play a game then they need to invest in the primarily supported Operating System(s). One of the advantages of owning a Microsoft machine is that I do not have to wait for a Mac or Linux release of a new game. I do own a lovely MacBook Pro as well, and I will be building a new Linux machine over the holidays, but so far I am still preferring to engage in hardcore gaming on my Windows machines.
badhabit
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Re: Dev Team: Whats the Verdict on Linux version?

Post by badhabit »

Azel wrote: But I digress...
Azel, yes you do, therefore have some needed timeout. Infact, your persistent inability to differentiate between objective/subjective aspects and staying on focus on an objective discussion instead of personal name calling / personal attacks disqualifies you, sadly, from participating in this forum. Please, play somewhere else.
Azel
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Re: Dev Team: Whats the Verdict on Linux version?

Post by Azel »

badhabit wrote:
Azel wrote: But I digress...
Azel, yes you do, therefore have some needed timeout. Infact, your persistent inability to differentiate between objective/subjective aspects and staying on focus on an objective discussion instead of personal name calling / personal attacks disqualifies you, sadly, from participating in this forum. Please, play somewhere else.
sshhh, It'll be okay :lol:
deusexm1
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Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 7:28 pm

Re: Dev Team: Whats the Verdict on Linux version?

Post by deusexm1 »

Azel
With that said, I still firmly believe that if somone wants to play a game then they need to invest in the primarily supported Operating System(s). One of the advantages of owning a Microsoft machine is that I do not have to wait for a Mac or Linux release of a new game. I do own a lovely MacBook Pro as well, and I will be building a new Linux machine over the holidays, but so far I am still preferring to engage in hardcore gaming on my Windows machines.
You can believe what you want. Your opinion and multiple trolling attempts are irrelevant to me. This thread, as stated in the title, was created to get developer response regarding linux version. It did not include in its title, a request for an opinion from "Azel" a know-it-all internet nobody with poor comprehension skills and the attention span of a 5 year old.

I am free to use whatever operating system i wish. That OS for me is Ubuntu. I will only pay money for software that is created for the OS that I am using. There are many games i am interested in, not just LOG 2. It would be counter productive to purchase a windows version and further support that ecosystem when i do not even use Windows nor have it installed.

Instead I choose to pay full price for games that have linux versions, or kickstarter campaigns for games that plan to have linux versions. I have been absent from this thread because I have been gaming Dreamfall:Chapters (which I backed).

If the developers of LOG arent interested in supporting linux that is fine by me. If they decide at any point to put their game on tux, then no hard feelings and i will buy it right away.
Azel
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Re: Dev Team: Whats the Verdict on Linux version?

Post by Azel »

deusexm1 wrote:You can believe what you want. Your opinion and multiple trolling attempts are irrelevant to me. This thread, as stated in the title, was created to get developer response regarding linux version. It did not include in its title, a request for an opinion from "Azel" a know-it-all internet nobody with poor comprehension skills and the attention span of a 5 year old.
At the time you started this thread, there was already a topic on the first page that addressed it:
http://grimrock.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=8424

If you have the mental capacity beyond that of a 5 year old then you would have searched the forum first before re-starting an existing active topic. Not to mention that you're the guy who was the victim of identity theft due to bad use of a PC, yet concluded that getting a better PC to protect your bad use is the proper solution :lol:

If you really wanted an answer from the Dev's and not my all-knowing persona, then you should have emailed the Development team instead of posting an already covered topic on an Open Public Forum.

You can try to claim I am the one with the comprehension skills of a 5 year old... as you openly illustrate much, much worse.
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