Food and Puzzles don't mix

[Azel]

Your English is absolutely atrocious. You said in LoG 1 people asked for "water" and someone made it in a Mod and therefore my hatred of food would be worse. I assumed you meant someone added drinking water since that is the only thing that makes sense in your retarded comparison.

Now you appear to be talking about the actual water you can swim in. Which would mean that during LoG 1 people wanted to swim, then someone did it in a Mod, then swimming became a feature in LoG 2. If that's what you are referring to then that is a lovely story but doesn't mean a damn thing in regards to the topic of food vs puzzles.

i are dont care what you a pity so learn this how to read and or write with properly-food, mods, theorycraft, posts, water, puzzles, pity you search for making sense.

[Anurias]

Azel, I just love how when you reply to someone you rip out fragments of sentences to pull things completely out of context and your responses have nothing to do with the original context whatsoever. For example, I mentioned the note about the solution to the tetris puzzle and you applied the game's language that describes MOVEMENT ONLY claiming that because of that language you had no way of knowing to follow standard reading order when everything else in the game is presented in english and even on the signs where you read this special language it reads from left to right and top to bottom.

You also accuse me of using hindsight... I'm referring to my experiences not after the fact and realizing how easy the puzzle was, but I am in fact referring to my experiences from when I was presented with the puzzles. If you had bothered to read my sentences and paragraphs completely instead of in the fragments you decided to pull out you may have caught that.

As for the part where you try to say that I'm wrong about everything having a clue and pointing at the turns in the UHU NA stuff, you are given a note with everything but the words for the turns and the words for 3 and 4. Those were left off to let the clue remain a CLUE and not be a SOLUTION. Yes, you are supposed to solve the clues, not just be told 'go here, drop this, go there, pick up reward like good little mouse running through a maze for cheese.'

You also are missing the fact that Grimrock is NOT an adventure game in the same genre as Myst, nor is it an RPG. It's a Dungeon Crawler, and it was modeled after games like Dungeon Master from over a decade ago. The series is a tribute to THOSE games and is part of THEIR genre. Which is a genre of games that has been laying dormant for far too long. Grimrock is their resurrection. A rebirth if you will.

If you want to play a game that is entirely focused on puzzles like Myst is, then go play a 'Puzzle Adventure' game and don't try to take our 'Dungeon Crawler' games away from us. We've been without good games in this genre for far too long and it's high time those of us that love this genre actually got a new game series for it.

I'm pretty sure you have no clue what Dungeon Master is as well since you completely missed where Dr. Disaster was talking about water as a feature people had asked for. In Dungeon Master you had both hunger and thirst to contend with, so you had to carry food and water everywhere you went. Adding that feature to the game would undoubtedly drive you nuts since you seem to be having enough trouble with food. Which I honestly don't understand why you don't just let all your characters go without eating until you solve the puzzle you want to stubbornly wrack your brain on and then feed them after you've solved it... after all, a character that reaches maximum hunger can't get any hungrier so why waste food filling them back up just to have their hunger bar dry up again when you can just let it dry up once?

[Dr.Disaster]

Your English is absolutely atrocious. You said in LoG 1 people asked for "water" and someone made it in a Mod and therefore my hatred of food would be worse. I assumed you meant someone added drinking water since that is the only thing that makes sense in your retarded comparison.

Now you appear to be talking about the actual water you can swim in. Which would mean that during LoG 1 people wanted to swim, then someone did it in a Mod, then swimming became a feature in LoG 2. If that's what you are referring to then that is a lovely story but doesn't mean a damn thing in regards to the topic of food vs puzzles.

i are dont care what you a pity so learn this how to read and or write with properly-food, mods, theorycraft, posts, water, puzzles, pity you search for making sense.

I see you are completely clueless

[Rithrin]

I hate to defend Azel here, because I think he is wrong, but some of the forum members here like Dr. Disaster are so quick to jump on anyone who has a differing opinion with them and spew unwarranted abuse. Even though he's a normal, well-mannered person when it comes to mod threads, Dr. Disaster tackles disagreements by being deliberately obtuse and willfully ignorant of his opponent's ideas, preferring to simply trash talk and be "clever" by misrepresentation. It's no wonder that any thread where someone is in disagreement with him ends up in a 5 page flame war packed with vitriol. Can you blame Azel for lashing out at people who are calling him an idiot, etc, for having an opinion on a video game based on how he subjectively feels?

I want food to stay. I like how it feels, generally, in Grimrock. Azel doesn't. It's a differing of opinions. Nowhere did he say that he had a problem with finding or gathering food, but his detractors have been repeating this constantly, as if it is the driving force behind his posts. He just doesn't get a good feeling from the combination of puzzle solving and hunger urgency. If you're going to crap all over someone, at least represent their opinions correctly. Otherwise, you just look silly sitting around with manure-covered straw men.

I won't approve of Azel returning shots against users, as a wrong shouldn't be answered with another wrong, but purposefully inciting someone is also morally low.

[Anurias]

Rithrin, I agree that flaming and insulting based on opinions of features of a game is a bad thing, but I would like to point out that Azel started this thread as a call out to the developers of the game to make a fundamental shift in an aspect of the game because Azel's opinion of that aspect was that it didn't belong in puzzle oriented games like Myst... and he's right, food doesn't belong in a game like Myst, but Grimrock is not a game like Myst and suggesting changes in a game to make it fit into a different type of game is like hammering a square block into a circular hole... Sure, with enough force it'll go in, but it just doesn't belong there. Azel is welcome to his opinion that the food aspect of the game is a detractor, and that's fine that he doesn't like it, but he should not be asking for the devs to change something that was designed into the game as a core aspect that people who like this style of game asked for.

[Azel]

Azel, I just love how when you reply to someone you rip out fragments of sentences to pull things completely out of context and your responses have nothing to do with the original context whatsoever. For example, I mentioned the note about the solution to the tetris puzzle and you applied the game's language that describes MOVEMENT ONLY claiming that because of that language you had no way of knowing to follow standard reading order when everything else in the game is presented in english and even on the signs where you read this special language it reads from left to right and top to bottom.

Well no, I presented the different language because you stated that English is the only language rule that should be followed. I was correcting you and now you are argument dodging.

You also accuse me of using hindsight... I'm referring to my experiences not after the fact and realizing how easy the puzzle was, but I am in fact referring to my experiences from when I was presented with the puzzles. If you had bothered to read my sentences and paragraphs completely instead of in the fragments you decided to pull out you may have caught that.

Oh I did read your entire thoughts unfortunately, but doing so only makes things worse. You are only concerned with pretending that the puzzles are easy and the people are either "dumb" or "overthinking." Fairly worthless.

As for the part where you try to say that I'm wrong about everything having a clue and pointing at the turns in the UHU NA stuff, you are given a note with everything but the words for the turns and the words for 3 and 4. Those were left off to let the clue remain a CLUE and not be a SOLUTION. Yes, you are supposed to solve the clues, not just be told 'go here, drop this, go there, pick up reward like good little mouse running through a maze for cheese.'

That is incorrect; you are argument dodging again. The initial clue's on the UHU NA paper do not give explicit instructions. It does not say "turn right" versus "walk right." It only gives the player enough information to eventually figure out Turn vs Move vs Rotation. Thus, "NA" is a CLUE that it means "2" ... the player has to figure out this means "move 2 places." So when the Rotations were left out, there were literally clues that were left out, which is why you ended up making excuses about the ease of process of elimination. Even if they had included the Rotation words on the mapping document, the player still doesn't know if that means "turn the camera" or "walk in an L shape" since the mapping graphic literally portrays both options.

You simply know the answer now and are speaking from hindsight. Everything on the UHU map is vague enough to leave at least 2 possible interpretations; you are pretending that the correct interpretation is apparent from the start. That's completely invalid, and worthless.

You also are missing the fact that Grimrock is NOT an adventure game in the same genre as Myst, nor is it an RPG. It's a Dungeon Crawler, and it was modeled after games like Dungeon Master from over a decade ago. The series is a tribute to THOSE games and is part of THEIR genre. Which is a genre of games that has been laying dormant for far too long. Grimrock is their resurrection. A rebirth if you will.

Wrong again. I actually address the dungeon crawl and RPG aspects of the game quite often; which means you are missing that fact, repeatedly. You're making excuses again, and you're ignoring the fact that Grimrock moved very heavily in to the realm of adventure games like Myst. You can put the Island maps up side-by-side and see great similarities.

To be clear, Grimrock 2 is undoubtedly a hybrid game: dungeon crawl + RPG + adventure. You think it's only 1 of these; a testiment to your mental capacity... and you really expect people to believe you were smart enough to solve these puzzles the first time? Nice try.

If you want to play a game that is entirely focused on puzzles like Myst is, then go play a 'Puzzle Adventure' game and don't try to take our 'Dungeon Crawler' games away from us. We've been without good games in this genre for far too long and it's high time those of us that love this genre actually got a new game series for it

I wasn't planning on coming to your house and robbing you so calm down, junior. You can keep your one-dimensional gaming life for as long as your heart desires. Besides, my request is to eliminate food to help enhance the already dominant presence of the adventure game genre in LoG 2. Taking away food won't rob the dungeon crawl experience at all - in my opinion, of course.

I'm pretty sure you have no clue what Dungeon Master is as well since you completely missed where Dr. Disaster was talking about water as a feature people had asked for. In Dungeon Master you had both hunger and thirst to contend with, so you had to carry food and water everywhere you went. Adding that feature to the game would undoubtedly drive you nuts since you seem to be having enough trouble with food.

Umm, no, I understood that point and since contending with thirst never ever happens in the official campaigns for LoG 1 nor LoG 2 it is an absolutely retarded thing to say. I could create a Mod and eliminate food entirely, does that mean I win the debate?

How many times did your party go thirsty in Grimrock 1? Zero.
How many times did your party go thirsty in Grimrock 2? Zero.

So why the hell are you and the mental infant, Dr. Disaster, talking about thirst?

Which I honestly don't understand why you don't just let all your characters go without eating until you solve the puzzle you want to stubbornly wrack your brain on and then feed them after you've solved it... after all, a character that reaches maximum hunger can't get any hungrier so why waste food filling them back up just to have their hunger bar dry up again when you can just let it dry up once?

For one simple reason: chances are that the moment the puzzle is solved I will "once again" be attacked by a horde of zombies, rats, or mummies and I would like it very much if my Barbarian and Wizard could start kicking ass instead of worrying about weather they ate their lunch, drank some water, or took their damn daily multi-vitamins

Azel is welcome to his opinion that the food aspect of the game is a detractor, and that's fine that he doesn't like it, but he should not be asking for the devs to change something that was designed into the game as a core aspect that people who like this style of game asked for.

Interesting, so you support censorship of ideas you don't agree with. You're not only daft, but a nazi. Good for you. I doubt that the dev's of Grimrock need infantile slugs like you and Dr. Disaster to "save" them from the big bad ugly poster that is making a suggestion for a change in their game. Despite your nazi lifestyle I am sure the dev's are free people and can make their own decisions. Besides, they are already granting part of my request by adding the Neck Chain which eliminates the need to constantly feed the group.

Also, you just promoted Dr. Disasters scenario where "several people" wanted to see a change to Grimrock, by adding thirst as a factor. Which means you are in full support of "asking the devs to change something that was designed into the game as a core aspect" ... as long as you agree with it. If you dont, burn the witch!

What I like about these exchanges is that it gives the dev's a chance to see what type of intellect gravitates towards different aspects of their game. The dev's could ignore the arguments entirely in this thread and just see that an experienced gamer that recognizes their talent would like to see food eliminated, and on the other side... a nazi and a retard want to keep it.

You guys are doing the work for me!

[Dr.Disaster]

I want food to stay. I like how it feels, generally, in Grimrock. Azel doesn't. It's a differing of opinions. Nowhere did he say that he had a problem with finding or gathering food, but his detractors have been repeating this constantly, as if it is the driving force behind his posts. He just doesn't get a good feeling from the combination of puzzle solving and hunger urgency. If you're going crap all over someone, at least represent their opinions correctly. Otherwise, you just look silly sitting around with manure-covered straw men.

You identified the key point of the disagreement: he see's a hunger urgency that is - to be frank - selfmade. Player actions like walking, fighting/spellcasting and thus auto-regenerating health/energy and even resting cause hunger in LoG2 while standing still and doing nothing does not. This is very easy to verify: start a new game and have the party sit in the cage. Now leave for bathroom/kitchen/shopping/whatever and return after some time has passed. You'll find the party still sitting there awaiting your commands without a change on their food bar.

Now if players finds a puzzle but miss or don't unterstand it's hints they can always try to brute force them. Azel's statements regarding the Archives and Tetris puzzles reflect that this seems to be his default route. Due to this he moves his party a lot but accomplishes little beside generating hunger. This might cause him frustration but it's after all selfmade.

[Azel]

I want food to stay. I like how it feels, generally, in Grimrock. Azel doesn't. It's a differing of opinions. Nowhere did he say that he had a problem with finding or gathering food, but his detractors have been repeating this constantly, as if it is the driving force behind his posts. He just doesn't get a good feeling from the combination of puzzle solving and hunger urgency. If you're going to crap all over someone, at least represent their opinions correctly. Otherwise, you just look silly sitting around with manure-covered straw men.

Jeesus H. Christ, Rithrin! You are the only person so far to hit the nail on the head with absolute precision. Which is actually a problem because I was completely happy knowing that on one side you had someone like me pushing to remove food, and on the other side a retard-nazi duet supporting food to stay. But now you bust in as a true intellectual, thus giving weight to keeping food (pun intended).

I could care less if nerd raging fools agree with me, but now I really want you to be convinced to abandon food. Come on buddy, put the lizard on a stick down. You know you want to!

[Azel]

This might cause him frustration but it's after all selfmade.

It's simply playing the game, not "selfmade" ... although there is no doubt that you're "bitchmade"

You tried to make a point about adding water for thirst, which was done in a Mod, not the actual game. That means it was "selfmade" ... yet you think it's a valid point. It's hilarious watching you argue with your self. Yep, you're definitely "bitchmade"

[Dr.Disaster]

mr. strong language got to a point in his last posts that some mods might dislike .. i wait and see