Dr.Disaster wrote:sigh ..
I know exactly what you want: an instant +75 health item a.k.a. an infinitely reusable health potion.
That is not going to happen.
Your character only loses health by switching away the crystal shield, when he is between (max health - 75) and max health.
When he is already below (max health - 75) he'll only lose 75 max health and not a single health point.
Removing an item that grants +max health will not kill your character even when he is at 1 health because the removal of the item subtracts from your max health and not your actual health.
I'm not sure whether you're purposefully misunderstanding or not, but you continue to misrepresent his argument. What he wants is not an infinitely reusable healing potion. What he wants is to be able to use the hand slot swap feature without dealing 75 damage to himself in the process. I think that's a reasonable request.
One solution that may make everyone happy is to have current HP scale with maximum HP as it changes. So if MaxHP doubles due to equipping an item, CurrentHP also doubles. Likewise if MaxHP is halved, CurrentHP is also halved. And both of these adjustments could round down to prevent abuse. Yes, you could dance back and forth between a dual-wield set and a shield set, but that takes more button presses and introduces an element of risk.
I just think it is not really implemented very well since we are penalized for swapping and swapping is the whole point of having 2 slots.
I suppose swapping to utility items like rope and shovel for ease of use.
Or perhaps some throwing items or in the rare case you want to kill those 3 underwater enemies a little sooner and do not want to set up before hand.
Or swapping to utility wands...
But for the heat of the battle the item swapping does not work out very well.
My opinion is the second slot was an answer to quick slots without giving us quick slots which I may be mistaken about.
At present it is not very useful in combat.
Example1: I want to switch to my energy orb and axe to use the axes ability. I switch and my energy has to regen while in combat.
I can just swap before fight and drink a pot.
Example 2: I am fighting zombies but want to switch to my heavy hitting cold 2 hander to fight fire golems.
I lose my fire resistance and other bonuses in a fight I need it most.
Example 3: I want to drink a potion of haste or health in my secondary. I swap and actually take a loss that can be somewhat higher than the gain from pots.
So far there are only 3 sets in game that give bonuses. The Archmage is the only one that works right with the current game mechanics imo.
It does not rely on anything in your secondary or initial slots. It gives 50 energy and stays. Having 75 health stay in not game breaking. Nor is the fire resistance since in the current game there is 2 heavy fire fights and at that time there are numerous other measures that yield fire resistance.
I just wish the set bonuses had been more thought out or that they will be in the future.
Or better yet we could have access to the item attributes and such and could tinker with them for our own game style.
Dr.Disaster wrote:sigh ..
I know exactly what you want: an instant +75 health item a.k.a. an infinitely reusable health potion.
That is not going to happen.
Your character only loses health by switching away the crystal shield, when he is between (max health - 75) and max health.
When he is already below (max health - 75) he'll only lose 75 max health and not a single health point.
Removing an item that grants +max health will not kill your character even when he is at 1 health because the removal of the item subtracts from your max health and not your actual health.
I'm not sure whether you're purposefully misunderstanding or not, but you continue to misrepresent his argument. What he wants is not an infinitely reusable healing potion. What he wants is to be able to use the hand slot swap feature without dealing 75 damage to himself in the process.
.. and i keep telling him and now you that this is not going to happen.
I outlined the circumstances how bonus granting items in LoG work. Twice.
Swapping an active weapon set with an inactive one is literally swapping four items between inventory slots and hands. The patch 2.1.13 made sure that this behavior is now also properly taken care off with the armor sets and it will not be changed back to it's bugged state in any kind of form. Either accept that and use the armor sets and other bonus granting in-hand items properly or discontinue to use them.
FlashSoul wrote:Here is how I would like it to work :
- When you switch the shield away from the active slot, you lose 75 HP (and 75 max HP).
- When you switch back the shield to the active slot, your max HP is increased by 75 and your health itself is increased by the set/shield's "health pool" which may or may not be 75.
sigh ..
I know exactly what you want: an instant +75 health item a.k.a. an infinitely reusable health potion.
That is not going to happen.
Your character only loses health by switching away the crystal shield, when he is between (max health - 75) and max health.
When he is already below (max health - 75) he'll only lose 75 max health and not a single health point.
Removing an item that grants +max health will not kill your character even when he is at 1 health because the removal of the item subtracts from your max health and not your actual health.
funny, but the way it USED to work was correct. you got the SET bonus, but NOT the shield bonus, if it wasn't active.
that's the way sets should work.
sorry, but I completely agree with the OP, and you continuing to say "ur wrong!" is not only not helping, it's insulting.
I notice you actually do this quite a lot, all over this board, and it's rather pathetic.
It's funny how all the people used to a beneficial bug want to have it back and keep pretending it was the correct way how it worked. Well unless you teach your characters to have 4 hands so they can hold a shield a melee weapon potions and bombs all at once this bugged behavior will not return.
You can keep on whining how much you want it back but this discussion is over. AH rightfully found this behavior to be a bug and they swat it. End of story.
I'm not going to lie, I registered out of lurker status just to comment on this due to how much misunderstanding and misrepresentation is going on here.
The developers of Grimrock have always encouraged switching of items in hands during gameplay. In LoG1 there was constant swapping between melee and ranged weapons, or swapping a weapon/shield out for an item with charges, or tossing potions around between your group, etc. This is no more clear than in LoG2, where the developers even gave us additional hand quick slots - the developers are actively encouraging players to place alternate items in those slots to switch between them.
But then they punish the player arbitrarily for using this feature whenever these items involve a bonus to either HP or Energy. This has nothing to do with set bonuses specifically, they are a symptom of the overall design problem.
My wizard is holding two magical items which increase Energy by a total of 75. But she can't cast Lightning Bolt. So I gave her a Lightning Blade to hold in the alternate hand slot, which costs 25 Energy to throw a Lightning Bolt. That way, whenever I came across a need for lightning, I could switch over and handle it - after all, the developers encourage us to swap items around. But then, if my wizard switches away to her alternate hand slot, she suddenly loses 75 Energy. That's fine, because she is no longer holding the items which give her a bonus. Then I activate the Lightning Blade for 25 Energy, and switch back to her normal weapons. Only now, instead of having her starting energy minus 25, she has 100 less energy than where she started. She is effectively receiving no bonuses for actively using her two primary weapons.
The same goes for my knight, who was using the Crystal armor set, but kept losing 75 Health since he had to switch away from the Crystal Shield, breaking the set bonus, to cast Shield. Losing 75 Health to gain 25 Protection for a battle is rather counterproductive. So I tossed that Crystal junk and wore the Meteor set, which did not penalize me for using built-in game features. Unfortunately there was no easy solution for my wizard, who simply had to hold on to the same two items during the game, ignoring anything else, and becoming a less fun aspect of the game.
The OP is not requesting to have set bonuses for inactive items, nor is he requesting an "infinitely reusable health potion", as has been repeatedly claimed in this thread. The request is to not be arbitrarily penalized for using the built-in game feature of "alternate weapon slots" in a game where swapping items and inventory management is a prominent and important feature. If you are holding a +50 Health in one hand and have full HP, switch away from it, then switch back, you should remain at full HP. If you were holding that +50 Health item, but take damage for 75, switch away from the item, then back, you certainly should still have maximum HP minus 75.
What I would propose is that, when you remove any item that provides +Health or +Energy, there is a 2 to 3 second window where the game 'remembers' you were wearing the item and, if re-equipped during this small window, it would return you to your original values (minus any damage or energy use that may have occurred, obviously). No "infinitely reusable health potions" here, no "set bonuses for inactive items" here, just an actual reason to use those alternate hand slots once you get +Health and +Energy items.
Rithrin wrote:The OP is not requesting to have set bonuses for inactive items, nor is he requesting an "infinitely reusable health potion", as has been repeatedly claimed in this thread. The request is to not be arbitrarily penalized for using the built-in game feature of "alternate weapon slots" in a game where swapping items and inventory management is a prominent and important feature. If you are holding a +50 Health in one hand and have full HP, switch away from it, then switch back, you should remain at full HP. If you were holding that +50 Health item, but take damage for 75, switch away from the item, then back, you certainly should still have maximum HP minus 75.
What I would propose is that, when you remove any item that provides +Health or +Energy, there is a 2 to 3 second window where the game 'remembers' you were wearing the item and, if re-equipped during this small window, it would return you to your original values (minus any damage or energy use that may have occurred, obviously). No "infinitely reusable health potions" here, no set bonuses for inactive items here, just an actual reason to use those alternate hand slots.
That approach doesn't really work, since it would kill you for switching away from the item with less than 50 current HP. I can't think of a sensible approach other than keeping the character at the same percentage of max HP, such that putting on a +50 health item with 1/50 HP would leave you at 2/100 HP, and putting it on with 50/50 HP would leave you at 100/100 HP.
Rithrin wrote:The OP is not requesting to have set bonuses for inactive items, nor is he requesting an "infinitely reusable health potion", as has been repeatedly claimed in this thread. The request is to not be arbitrarily penalized for using the built-in game feature of "alternate weapon slots" in a game where swapping items and inventory management is a prominent and important feature. If you are holding a +50 Health in one hand and have full HP, switch away from it, then switch back, you should remain at full HP. If you were holding that +50 Health item, but take damage for 75, switch away from the item, then back, you certainly should still have maximum HP minus 75.
What I would propose is that, when you remove any item that provides +Health or +Energy, there is a 2 to 3 second window where the game 'remembers' you were wearing the item and, if re-equipped during this small window, it would return you to your original values (minus any damage or energy use that may have occurred, obviously). No "infinitely reusable health potions" here, no set bonuses for inactive items here, just an actual reason to use those alternate hand slots.
That approach doesn't really work, since it would kill you for switching away from the item with less than 50 current HP. I can't think of a sensible approach other than keeping the character at the same percentage of max HP, such that putting on a +50 health item with 1/50 HP would leave you at 2/100 HP, and putting it on with 50/50 HP would leave you at 100/100 HP.
Since the game currently does not kill you when removing a +Health item at low health, why would it be any different with the proposed changes? This is only an issue that occurs when you are at full Health/Energy anyways.
