Paralyzed by character creation

[Shadowlordx]

I would say if you want the optimal party you're looking at:
Minotaur/Lizardman/Human/Ratling Barb Heavy Weapons: Each of these choices has different pros and cons so choose the one you like the most.
Minotaur(Only choose 1 Mino)/Lizardman/Human/Ratling Barb Light Weapons: Eventually aim for dual wield for maximum damage.
Lizardman(probably worse than Ratling/Human)/Ratling/Human Rogue: Either dual daggers or missile weapon spec is probably viable and end game using both is probably best.
Ratling/Human/Insectoid(probably worse than Ratling/Human) Alchemist(mage): Level in order, getting 1 for each to begin with then either going to 4/maxing alchemy or putting fire to 3 then maxing alchemy, Alchemy(1 level initially), concentration (up to 3), fire (up to 3 or 5), air (up to 3 or 4, only 1 until water to 3), water (don't level this until 4/5 alchemy, 2/3 concentration, 3 fire, 1 air, but then level to 3), do not level Earth (poison spells are mediocre, and by the time Ice Shards is worthwhile its outscaled by Frost Bolt).

I think Alchemist Mage build is better than going for a Battlemage since Alchemist is only really worse than Battlemage as a backliner in the early game where the Alchemist can't cast until they get a wand/orb, but there are Wands/Orbs early in the next couple levels. Further, using an alchemist as a missile weapon user is categorically worse than a rogue missile weapon user, while the actual difference between battlemage and alchemist as magic user ends up fairly minor (battlemage has slightly more energy and can cast without an orb/wand) especially compared to the difference between Rogue missile weapons versus Alchemist missile weapons at high levels (at level 15 rogue gets 15% more crit chance with missile weapons compared to alchemist which is equivalent to 5 points in Critical). Also late game you can spam bear potions (which may have higher dps than magic in the end game, although I've only heard this not tested it)

Without Alchemy you lose out on a lot of possible damage from Energy/Rage/Bear/Speed (I think you can brew these) Potions, Frost/Fire/Lightning Bombs. Healing/mitigation from healing/shield/necromancer potions. Also quite a significant amount of stats from brewing attribute potions.

[Luj1]

Yeah it happens with every RPG I play, I tend to get way too caught up in trying to find what the 'optimal' character builds are that I end up taking weeks to actually play the damn game.

Thank God I'm not the only one

[Saice]

Yeah it happens with every RPG I play, I tend to get way too caught up in trying to find what the 'optimal' character builds are that I end up taking weeks to actually play the damn game.

Thank God I'm not the only one

I used to be that way. I used to need to maximize my characters. But being optimal and min/maxing I found over the years that it just stopped being fun that way. You spend all this time researching, looking into data, and testing things only to end up with the same build as everyone else that does the same thing. You end up a cookie cutter of everyone else even if you don't try to be.

So now I just wing it often and just go with what I think would be interesting or fun. I also have no fear of restarting at the drop of a hat if I have chosen vary poorly. I find I have a lot more fun these days then I used to make when I worried over a 0.5 dps drop because of a misplaced stat point.

[Sarumorpheus]

Agreed that it's more important to have a good time (especially if you can still play and beat the game) than a cookie cutter build! I do still aim to upgrade my characters, obviously, and try to make smart choices, though I can already tell that some I would have done differently.

After all, your team is a random, ragtag group of prisoners. Their skills shouldn't necessarily match!

However, if people have fun making optimized builds, by all means go ahead. I still try to optimize my characters, but only after having them start the way I wish.

[Isaac]

I am not buying the whole "alchemy is necessary" thing. So far I've not brewed a single potion or made a single bomb. I've used two of the health potions I found and one fire bomb. The rest is just sitting there, waiting for some boss or something.

Here is the party I have along with the reasoning behind setting it up that way:

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=7057&start=20#p77204

I've not only constantly brewed potions, but in two instances, my party was surrounded on all sides, and I was able to eventually get their backs and sides to a wall against the horde, and it was the alchemist in the back brewing potions that allowed the party to survive. I've not crafted any bombs yet.

*Ratling alchemist coincidentally.

[steelsoldier]

Honestly I like making a balanced party and sometimes not allowing every character to be fully optimal into every specific role, for instance, I like running with humans for everyone in my party, this prevents me from using the best possible race according to their stats for each class but also it allows each one of the characters to be balanced without being either overpowered or underpowered.

[Baxter]

So I ended up going with Minotaur barbarian, insectoid rogue w/ quickness and dual wielding, ratling bowchemist and human mage, and it's worked out pretty well. Dual wielding isn't super damaging but being able to throw out more attacks faster is helpful, or at least I feel it is. Ended up having trouble early on because I spent points on getting my frontliners to be able to use light armor without penalty but evasion is so useless that it's probably fine to just chuck the armor on them and put points into armor after their weapons skills are maxed out.

Thanks for the help at any rate, I'm enjoying the game although I'm feeling a bit more lost in grimrock 2, it's much less linear than the first game, haha.

[Sarumorpheus]

It's good you have a party you're happy with, Baxter!

I was actually wondering about that yesterday, regarding the evasion penalty one gets for not having the required armor skill, if it's indeed worth investing in it or not. At least you get +5% protection per item equipped when allocating points in the armor skill, so there's that.

My knight is specced in heavy armor and barbarian in light, and my level 12 Insectoid Knight with protection over 100 can take a lot of physical punishment, so can't complain there.