Character Builds Optimization

[Mambus]

Hey guys,

I watched a bit of let's play by Mark to see the character creation and level up effects to try to guess the best starting builds for a party (Warning, long post, see builds and TL:DR if preferable):

Basic assumptions (as shown in the video and gathered from the excellent spreadsheet tool created by thomas8991):

Class choice only impacts HP and Energy starting level, level-up HP and Energy gains and special class benefits, every class can still learn every skill
Race choice only impacts starting attributes, choice of traits and race benefits (and portraits available :>)

Attribute impact:
1 strength = +0.5 min melee/thrown(?) damage, +1 max melee/thrown(?) damage, +3kg max load
1 dexterity = +2 accuracy, +1 evasion and potentially +0.5min damage and +1max damage for missile weapons
1 vitality = + 5 HP, + unknown number of HP per level-up improvement
1 willpower = +5 Energy, + unknown number of HP per level-up improvement

Class benefits:
Alchemist
- HP 50 and 6 per level, Energy 50 and 4 per level
- Herbs in your inventory multiply, determined by the number of steps taken. Firearms have 50% less chance to malfunction (mastering firearms skill eliminates malfunctions, so not that great of a class ability, but maybe you can create bullets with alchemy?)

Barbarian
- HP 80 and 10 per level, Energy 30 and 3 per level
- Strength +1 per level.

Battle Mage
- HP 50 and 5 per level, Energy 50 and 5 per level
- Weight of equipped armor is reduced by 50%. Can cast spells with their bare hands. Gain Protection +10 and Resist All +10 when equipped with a staff or an orb.

Farmer
- HP 30 and 5 per level, Energy 30 and 5 per level
- Instead of slaying monsters you gain experience by eating food.

Fighter
- HP 60 and 7 per level, Energy 30 and 3 per level
- Special attacks with melee weapons take half the time to build up and cost 25% less Energy.

Knight
- HP 60 and 7 per level, Energy 30 and 3 per level
- Protection +1 point per level. Weight of equipped armor is reduced by 50%. Evasion bonus of equipped shields is increased by 50%.

Rogue
- HP 45 and 5 per level, Energy 50 and 5 per level
- When dual wielding you suffer only 25% penalty to weapon damage (normally 40%). +1% chance per level to score a critical hit with a missile or throwing weapons.

Wizard
- HP 30 and 3 per level, Energy 70 and 7 per level
- Can cast spells with bare hands. Willpower +2.

Level-up benefits
- HP based on class and vitality
- Energy based on class and willpower
- 1 skill point
- at least level 13 should be achievable since there is an achievement for maxing 3 skills on a character (takes level 13 char without Skilled trait to do that)

Race benefits:
Human = +10% exp
Lizardman = +2 dexterity, -2 willpower, +25% resist all
Insectoid = +1 strength, -2 dexterity, -1 vitality, +2 willpower, -50% chance of body part injury
Minotaur = +5 strength, -4 dexterity, +4 vitality, -3 willpower, +25% food consumption
Ratling = -4 strength, +2 dexterity, +15 kg max load, immune to diseases

Traits:
Aggressive = +4 damage
Agile = +2 dexterity
Aura = +20 energy
Chitin Armor (Insectoid Only) = +10 protection
Cold-blooded = probably +25% cold resist
Deamon Ancestor = +25% fire resist
Endurance = carrying capacity +25kg, - 25% food consumption
Endure Elements (Lizardman Only) = +25% Resist All
Evasive = + some evasion
Fast Learner (Human Only) = +10% experience?
Fast Metabolism (Lizardman Only) = Regenerate HP and Energy 30% faster, food consumed 20% faster. Healing potions twice as effective
Head Hunter (Minotaur Only) = +1 Strength for every carried skull
Healthy = +2 Vitality
Muscular = +2 Strength
Mutation (Ratkin Only) = +1 to random attribute on level-up
Natural Armor = + some protection (probably less than Chitin Armor trait)
Poison Immunity (Lizardman Only)= Poison Resist 100%
Quick (Insectoid Only) = cooldowns for all actions reduced by 10%
Rage (Minotaur Only) = Strength increased by 10 when below 20% health
Skilled (Human Only) = + 1 Skillpoint on startup
Strong Mind = + 2 Willpower
Tough = +20 HP
Weapon specialization = +7 accuracy with Melee weapons

Build ideas:

I am mostly focusing on offensive builds since you can mitigate a lot of damage by moving quickly in this game, but I also added a few builds of other character types for the heck of it.

Notable traits:

Headhunter (Minotaur Only) = potentially high increase in strength somewhat balanced by inventory management problems (especially if skulls cannot be in bags/crates, not sure). Also, you should only have one Headhunter in the party as there is no maximum to this bonus.

Mutation (Ratkin Only) = one additional attribute point for every level balanced by its random nature (save scumming needed for optimal results). Worth at least 12 attribute points.

Quick (Insectoid Only) = 10% reduction in cooldowns translates into 10% increase in damage, if you click the weapon icon quick enough (and not wait to click it together with the other party members). Obviously more useful for non-mage types, since you cannot really quick click spells in this game.

Aggressive = fairly straightforward +4 damage applicable to all melee and ranged weapons is useful for all but pure mages. Roughly equivalent to +4 Strength or Dexterity (without other bonuses but with increased min damage). It might work for spells as well, but the damage output increase is minimal due to much lower amount of spells cast as opposed to melee/ranged attacks made (might be worth a shot for the damage over time spell effects though, like poison cloud).

Skilled (Human Only) = despite being only a meager 1 Skillpoint, this trait is better than most traits available if not looking strictly for damage output. For example, it is better for a mage than Aura trait, because this extra skill point can be invested in Concentration Skill for the same +20 Energy while requiring only 4 more skill points to reach mastery special perk as opposed to usual 5 Skill points. Same goes for extra HP for investing in Athletics skill. Investing the extra skill point in Accuracy skill (+10 accuracy and getting just one skill point away from the ability to do melee attacks from the back row) can also be a viable strategy.

The remaining traits are usually either straight +2 attribute, +4 of some attribute aspect (+HP, +Energy, + accuracy for melee) or very specific (+25% cold resist). Racial traits are usually more powerful so look them up first for your specific race.

Powerful damage classes:
Barbarian = +1 strength per level
Rogue = + 1% critical damage on missile and throwing weapons
Farmer = if the monsters do not respawn and food does, you can farm yourself to insane levels (just a guess though :>)

I am on the fence about fighter class ability benefits. They look good on the paper, but since fighters have a pretty meager supply of Energy unless you pump Concentration skill (20 Energy per skill point), that increased speed of special attacks might not amount to much if you have energy for just a couple attacks. I guess we will see in-game.

Sample Builds:

Ratling Hulk (for save scummers)
- Ratling with Mutation and Aggressive
- Barbarian
- Get +2 Strength on level up for extreme damage and mule ability

Minotaur Hunter
- Minotaur with Headhunter and Aggressive
- Barbarian
- Get +1 Strength and all the skulls to get the extremely strong, you might need to invest a bit in Accuracy skill though (+10 accuracy per skill point).

Ratling Commando (for save scummers)
- Ratling with Mutation and Aggressive
- Rogue
- use throwing weapons/dual wield and Strength or Missile weapons and Dexterity increases and go to town

Minotaur Rogue
- Minotaur with Headhunter and Aggressive
- Rogue
- Grab those throwing weapons and go skull hunting
- accuracy can be left in the negative territory if throwing weapons autohit like they did in LoG 1

Lizardman Immortal
- Lizardman with Endure Elements and Poison Immunity/Fast Metabolism
- Knight
- base 50% resist all and scaling protection should make you very hard to kill, double effect on healing potions or poison immunity for extra dose of safe.

Insectoid Blademaster
- Insectoid with Quick and Aggressive
- Fighter
- use special weapon attacks to demolish the enemy quickly, pumping Concentration skill (+20 Energy per point) is recommended if out of Energy during the fight

Ratling Gourmet (for savescummers)
- Ratling with Mutation and Aggressive
- Farmer
- eat your way to glory with attribute level ups to spice things up

Human Skillmachine
- Human with Fast Learner and Skilled
- probably Alchemist or Mage (firearms and magic damage likely does not scale with attributes)
- +20% extra experience and skilled trait will get you the most skills in game (mage schools, alchemy for the party,...)

Mage Energy Battery (for savescummers)
- Ratling with Mutation and Aura
- Mage/Battle Mage
- get willpower level ups for maximum Energy

Ratling Spellthrower (for save scummers)
- Ratling with Mutation and Aggressive
- Barbarian
- get willpower levelups (thanks to those, you will have about the same Energy as Barbarian as a pure mage :>) and use throwing weapon in the meantime
- one less magic school traded for a good source of damage when out of energy
- you need to find orb/staff to be able to cast (no bare hands casting)
- makes for a decent mule as well

TLDR:
You can always improve your melee/ranged build by making it a Ratling with mutation trait if you don't mind reloading a bit on levelups (just be ready for it to take a while if you make the whole ratling party :>). This trait also adds a nice flexiblity to your builds, as you can always pick a different attribute on level up if you need it more (e.g. extra energy or accuracy for a fighter instead of wasting skillpoints on Concentration or Accuracy skills).
Minotaurs with Headhunter traits are also good if you don't mind a bit of inventory management. Throwing weapons are probably a way to go (if they can't miss like in LoG 1). Otherwise, pump dexterity a bit.
If going mage and not worried about maximizing energy (not interested in dialing in 16 spells during each fight and save scumming), human with skilled and fast learner will get you the most skill points and thus most spell school coverage.

[thomast8991]

Thanks for the shout out, Mambus.

I'll work on adding your findings on game mechanics to my Google Sheet. If I get really fancy, I'll figure out a way to make it calculate stuff, but for now just having a reference sheet is handy. For those that haven't seen it so far:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

[Sarumorpheus]

This was nice and enlightening to read. Thanks for making it!

[Neutronium Dragon]

A minotaur farmer, all skilled up for throwing. If they can't do it already, I'll have to find some way to mod in growable plants that can be used as weapons. Bringing down the evil wizard with a frenzied barrage of garden vegetables is a concept too comical to pass up.

[Mambus]

It should be possible to do just that since all items cause damage when thrown.

At least there is an achievement to kill a turtle by repeatedly throwing pants at it:>. It just might take a while,so better make a party of four throwers, the more pants the merrier.

[Sir Tawmis]

At least there is an achievement to kill a turtle by repeatedly throwing pants at it:>.

Whoa, things are going to get awkward in the dungeon pretty quick....

[Neutronium Dragon]

Maybe I'm being blind again, but do we have any idea how many skill points someone is liable to get throughout the game? It'll make a big difference when considering skill lineups, especially spending into support skills.

[Lostedge]

Hey guys,
TLDR:
You can always improve your melee/ranged build by making it a Ratling with mutation trait if you don't mind reloading a bit on levelups (just be ready for it to take a while if you make the whole ratling party :>). This trait also adds a nice flexiblity to your builds, as you can always pick a different attribute on level up if you need it more

Save scumming does not seem to work.

[2_hype]

Can ranged weapons miss or is it the same as the 1st game?

[naturgewald]

There is a post from me on the Forum. Yes they can miss.