[MOD]Toorum's Manor

[Unkillable Cat]

As for the mod itself, I give up. I reached the "Maximum Security" prison, saw what the trick there was, which was

SpoilerShow

dodging the cube.

Then I saw that the trick was repeated over and over again, and it got less fun every single time. And then I reached the room where I was to push a number of buttons in sequence, with absolutely no margin for error, while one of those things was following me?

I'm sorry, that shit does not fly with me. If it was an optional part of the dungeon that one could go through, possibly for a great reward then that would be OK. But just like with pretty much every single puzzle, obstacle or monster in this gigantic mod, you HAVE to do it. And that's before we get to the part that the buttons you need to push are TINY, and Grimrock is known for not registering all mouse clicks made in the game. And speaking for myself, when I've been through around 25 levels of puzzles with either bad clues or no clues at all, constantly respawning monsters after almost every step... I've had enough at this point, I just want this mod to end. But no, every time I seem to make a little progress there's always a huge puzzle around the corner.

Almost every other Grimrock mod I've played has managed to keep my interest going somehow, but this one just wears me down. Your mod is too big, it has too much content, and it still needs much work to be ready for release. And it's too hard as well. I had a maxed-out party with powerful weapons and yet I ended up in far too many tough fights. Every archer I met does way too much damage. How come a swarm of bees does more damage than a Warden?

Item balance needs work as well, especially in the ranged weapons. We have 5 levels of bows and arrows. The standard arrow + Crookhorn Bow (which is found early) does 19 points of damage. The Steel bow + Steel arrow, the next step above, does 20 points of damage. Elven Bow + Elven Arrows does 26. I didn't bother to check what the Ancient Elven arrows do much further damage. The Thunder Bow + arrow does a little over 30 points of damage, and finally the Dragon Slayer Bow + Arrows do large amounts of damage, and yet there are two types of arrows for it, one that's one-use only and then normal-acting ones. And despite my attempts, I could not enchant any of the arrows except the standard ones. I would say that the progression there is off, resulting in redundant weapons and useless spells.

As for Thrown Weapons? They start out weak, and then we get some really powerful ones, like the Eggs and the Golden Throwing Knives (or whatever they were called)... and yet, against enemies like the Valgyar Legion (both types) they do NO DAMAGE whatsoever. None. Utterly useless against an enemy you'd most want to use it against.

You have something good here, but it still needs a lot of work before it's ready.

[Banaora]

Funny that you say this about the cube as I thought it was nicely designed by Bongobeat in this mod. I liked it far better than in the original game and yes I also needed several tries in the big room to press the buttons fast enough but after 10-15 tries, at the moment you know the order by heart it was doable and I even found there was some margin of error.

From my perspective there is truth in the second point you bring up about some of the clues. But Bongobeat is not a native english speaker. So my suggestion is for Bongobeat to publish a list with all the text in the game and a native english speaker look through this list and make corrections or suggestions. This list could and maybe should be done per level and maybe should include the corresponding map coordinates with each text. This way no one would feel pressured to improve the text of the whole mod but could start by improving the text of a level. In the end this would certainly improve the atmosphere in the mod I think, yet I don't know how much work it would be to compile such a list and how many people would be willing to lend a hand improving it.

As for the bows and crossbows, yeah it would be neat if you could put enchantment on those. I personally would not use it though as I am the person who is too lazy to enchant arrows or bolts in the first place

Btw Valgyars Legion is immune to fire damage and this is the reason those golden knives and the eggs don't do damage to them at all. It is really helpful to have one or two mages in the party and use lightning blast against them.

Yet when you reach the point the mod is no longer fun for you it's best to stop playing and take a break or stop playing for good.

Finally I'd just like to add that over all playing Toorum's Manor was fun for me despite the shortcomings.

[alois]

As for the mod itself, I give up.

Me, too. 2 minutes to kill four fire guards (having a minotaur which deals at least 400 damage points each times he (?) strikes) is waaaaay too much and waaaay too annoying.

Sorry, I give up.

Alois

[JimBob]

Level 16

The mod can be quite difficult in places.I am now surrounded by lizards which cannot be frozen and I am being killed every time I try it..

[bongobeat]

Wohoo!

I'm aware that the mod can be boring, as it is very long and very hard.

Well I do not understand what you are meaning about

...you HAVE to do it. And that's before we get to the part that the buttons you need to push are TINY, and Grimrock is known for not registering all mouse clicks made in the game.

yes you have to do it, or what? you have to do it to go further, I don't understand you. Are you saying that it is too hard?

What are you saying about the button? These are the prison button wallset, there is no another buttons. I don't know anything about "Grimrock-not-register-of-mouse-click". You have difficult to press that kind of button?

I will add more time to the sequence, so the door will stay opened a little longer. 1 sec or more, what do you think?

If you think that the clues are bad, then please dress me a list of those which you did not understand, and make me another proposition, or please make me a correct translation.
I know that some are difficult, and I try always to adjust them with the feedback of the players.

I will be happy if someone can explain all clues I did not understand in most of the mod I have already play
All cannot be perfect, or?

I 'm not sure that your remarks about "huge puzzle" are useful, I suppose that you are aware that this mod is very big. If their is nothing to do, so what's the point to play? What do you want to do while playing this? play on chess on your mobile phone or what? You are right, the mod is very long, and I probably make a mistake to make it such big. Because this result as a real items/monster balancing problems.

What's the point with a swarm of bee? And why couldn't them make more damage of a warden? This is custom monsters, as I integrated them later in the mod, I make him more stronger than a simple monster, I have put them in 3 places. One in the 4th level (only 2 monsters - bees), the second in the fire staff level (12 or 15 monsters, not sure - flies) and the other in the level 21 (bees - 20 of them), but at this state I think they are useful and will remove them. They wasn't there in the previous version. I added them to make the long corridor not boring. I'm not sure that it is really more stronger than a warden, or are you joking? Had to check the monster definition.

You have meet warden in the 7th level, I can not put so weak monsters (or modified monsters) far away in the mod (yes, the warden is really weak after your ranger can shoot elven or thunder arrows, and if you manage to make him shots 2 arrows with his skills, and your warriors use better melee weapon) How will be the fights against warden when you reach high level and you have heavy weapon? I had simply to adjust any new monster.

Do you think that the ranged weapons are not enough effective? So what do you think on how should I modify them?
the steel, crooked (bow - normal arrows) and elven are supposed to be used on the first 15 levels, then you better have to use the thunder arrows, at this point you have found enough arrows to make your ranger very deadly.
The dragon slayer bow is normally used against dragon or modified warden, and for the last 20 levels, in addition to the dwarven crossbow. The reason of the amount of damage is that the player have a powerful weapon for the final ending fight.
I did not make that by "hazard". It's because, first you have meet warden "level 2" in the level 7, warden "level 3" (if you have reach level 18), then warmachine. All of them are a constant evolution of the initial warden monsters. You did no really meet one warden in the version you played (original), because in the first playable version, they were in the level 7 but too weak with the player's level and with all items and book that you can have in the first levels. I had to make a evolved version of the warden.
My feeling was that I could not add same monsters, so I make them stronger, or it is useful to make them. But for that I had to add items, like dragon arrows, with a large amount of damage, or the dwarven crossbow.

I know about the enchantment, the arrow can't be enchanted because the used code is hardcoded, and can only be with some scripting. If you can do it for me, you are welcome.
Anyway I'm not sure that any enchantment will help you more, as he adds only little elemental damage. If you think that the bows are not enough powerful, the problem will be resolved by modifying the amount of damage of the bows, or the arrows.

By the way, I guess that the damage you mention are those written in the item definition, but this is not the real damage that your archer will make. It goes bigger with his skill.

what do you mean by

Every archer I met does way too much damage.

do you mean the human bowman by Leki? It is a hard monster, maybe I had to reduce the amount of damage.

the golden knives and the egg bomb are powerful, they do only fire damage, but they normally should be rare item, I finally put more, specially in the last levels, because the custom wardens in these levels are immune to all kind of magic, except fire.

The human bowman (as Banaora said) is protected against fire. And that Ok, I will definitely remove that kind of resistance. (it is the logic evolution and same resistance that the black skeleton swordsman)

As for the mod itself, I give up.

Me, too. 2 minutes to kill four fire guards (having a minotaur which deals at least 400 damage points each times he (?) strikes) is waaaaay too much and waaaay too annoying.
Sorry, I give up.
Alois

no problem, and thank to have "try" playing it.
Well they got 1000 in health (so that's 4000 for a squad). More than a ogre, less than a warden. But they are not easy monster, and only encountered on the level 17. But they are not really dangerous if you don't get stuck.
Anyway, that's the same thing than "more difficult than a warden" They are supposed to be very hard monster. At this level and to be in accord of the story, there is only black swordsman (or archer), mage and warden.
Do you think I should reduce their health amount?

Just curious: maybe you don't like on how I did this mod? It is not really intended to be as a grimrock or dungeon master mod only. I was a fps fan (doom), and I created this mod both with dm spirit and fps spirit, by spawning monsters. And I intended to make it long like an adventure game, as I was a great fan of morrowind the elder scroll.

But I have not really experience by doing such mods. It's my first one, I was more a 3d map builder (in game like ut99 or half life, or even doom) I think that's my default. I have maybe reacting like a fps player? I don't know if you understand what i mean.

Anyway, I think that, no matter what I improve, the mod will remain long.
But with you remark, I made a modification, and when you find the second gem, you can choose to end the mod by returning to the firsts levels, picking the graves, or continue to the end, with the final boss fight, in the factory.

From my perspective there is truth in the second point you bring up about some of the clues. But Bongobeat is not a native english speaker. So my suggestion is for Bongobeat to publish a list with all the text in the game and a native english speaker look through this list and make corrections or suggestions. This list could and maybe should be done per level and maybe should include the corresponding map coordinates with each text. This way no one would feel pressured to improve the text of the whole mod but could start by improving the text of a level. In the end this would certainly improve the atmosphere in the mod I think, yet I don't know how much work it would be to compile such a list and how many people would be willing to lend a hand improving it.

I will be very happy If a native english want to translate my english. I have actually no news from Rmariano.
I have already started to make a list of all english, sign, text, etc.. by level, but now, I can't do anything better. I will try to improve the puzzle/hints.

[bongobeat]

Level 16

The mod can be quite difficult in places.I am now surrounded by lizards which cannot be frozen and I am being killed every time I try it..

try both meteorspell and do damage with the melee weapons of your fighter. Don't forget to use your healing spell with the mage.
Are you stuck in the beast master room? or after the pit puzzle?

I will check to remove some monsters in these areas.

[minmay]

I will be very happy If a native english want to translate my english.

I volunteer for that.

[Eleven Warrior]

Yo bros..

Yes this Mod is hard but stop complaining its the way the creator made it... If it is to hard for you then play easy mode..

What I have done is think.. I have used the rest and thought about how much food I have to compensate.. Yes it requires thinking guys lol...

Bongo you may want to put a few more food items or heal potions for these people ahy.. Yes imam doing it hard but I save often and think after my last saved game... Then I reload the game so I know what to do.. Its realy not that bad ahy

Bongo awesome Mod Bro Good Job ahy.. Man so much effort you have done on this game just bloody awesome bro

EDIT: Man I love hard Dungeons it makes me feel Almost Human lol.....

[alois]

As for the mod itself, I give up.

Me, too. 2 minutes to kill four fire guards (having a minotaur which deals at least 400 damage points each times he (?) strikes) is waaaaay too much and waaaay too annoying.
Sorry, I give up.
Alois

no problem, and thank to have "try" playing it.
Well they got 1000 in health (so that's 4000 for a squad). More than a ogre, less than a warden. But they are not easy monster, and only encountered on the level 17. But they are not really dangerous if you don't get stuck.
Anyway, that's the same thing than "more difficult than a warden" They are supposed to be very hard monster. At this level and to be in accord of the story, there is only black swordsman (or archer), mage and warden.
Do you think I should reduce their health amount?

The problem is not "you have to kill 4000hp monsters", this is part of the game; the problem is "after you've killed *a lot* of 4000hp monsters, you wander a little bit around to check for doors/buttons/plates/objects and argh, here they are again!". The problem is that they respawn, and keep respawning in a huge room, with ten (or so) tiny buttons to click, with walls that change position and so on, and if you go back to the entrance of the level to see whether something opened, when you come back the room is full again, and every step you want to make takes 2 minutes. I mean, "hey, I already killed you, what do you want from me?" And, after a while, while you're trying to make progress in the level, the fact that they constantly appear means that you cannot keep up: if they spawn, say, every minute, and you need 2 to kill them, you know that there is nothing you can do!

Alois

[Eleven Warrior]

Hi alois..

Yes what you said is true, I forgot that bit lol.. Yes I agree it may need to be changed, the respawn rate that is.. Yes I did have a similar Level and it was very difficult even for me and I know where everything is so the Player would have an even harder time trying to keep up ahy..

So I deleted the Level and started it over again, with more timers running at longer delays eg: timer set to activate Script at 10 mins etc... Then the player walks onto a Pressure Plate and deactivate the timer and later on in the Level the timer is reactivated. Well kepping track of all this was interesting I must say lol..