Good Dungeon Design Principles

[SpiderFighter]

And light color...uhhh...I know, it's probably fun for some people to create new lights with different colors. But if you have all colors of the rainbow in your dungeon all you will achieve is that it looks silly.

I see where you're coming from, but there may be a reason for color usage, design-wise (I'm an offender). For example, In my Frankendugeon submisson, I use blue lighting to indicate safety, but those lights change to red when danger is nearby (and back to blue when it's safe again). In "The Hub," (my major dungeon WIP), there is a screencap around of different colors in one room, but what you can't see is that they they designate portals to different "colored" zones, which are several maps deep each (The Red Zone, The Green Zone, and so on). In each zone, there is most often only one color featured, and then only sparingly in order to tie that zone together. Is it realistic? Probably not, but then I've never come across an ogre IRL either, so it's kinda relative.

I'm not flaming you, I just want to point out that some designers may have reasons for things that seem outside the box at first.

[antti]

It's cool to see these more design-oriented discussions here besides the usual more technical discussions too.

Here's a few thoughts which are basically variations on topics we've already seen on this thread but who knows, maybe taking a look at the same thing from a different angle will be helpful to someone...

You should always keep the player in mind and try to picture in your head how he experiences the dungeon. When testing your levels try to to simulate a "newbie" player by imagining where he would be looking, how he would walk through the dungeon and what would he try first when encountering a difficult puzzle or a challenging combat or a trap.

How the player "reads" the dungeon is important. Can you tell important areas apart from the less important ones, just by looking? Does the player have a general idea on where he should be heading to next? Does the player have a goal?

Get someone to play the dungeon while you look over his shoulder (or if you're working over the internet, you can use video capture or even a live video feed) and realize how much self control it takes not to slap him on the face and yell "that's not how you are supposed to play this level, ugh!" . Instead, just take notes and think it through how the level could be improved. Pay attention to things that the player experienced differently from what you planned and see if you can turn level design "accidents" into features: if for some reason the player repeatedly visited a dead end tunnel that you thought was completely unremarkable, maybe that would be a good place for a secret? And most importantly, after he has played (please don't interrupt test players unless absolutely necessary) talk with the tester about how he felt while he played and ask about certain parts of the level where you think he might have had troubles understanding the level and so on... (Just as an idea for the modders here: you could work in pairs or small groups where you would test each others WIP dungeons and give feedback. Give some - get some )

But most importantly, work on how you work on levels. Try different methods of working, talk with other designers (like we are doing now in this thread) but keep in mind that what works for someone else might not always work for you and vice versa. Take a look how levels for a completely different type of game are built and think about why they were built just that particular way. And revisit your old levels and designs occasionally to see how you have improved: you might be surprised that how many of your old ideas or designs look stupid after a little bit of time has passed. But that's good since that way you know you actually have progressed! Or who knows, you might even rediscover some old forgotten ideas that still rock!

[Neikun]

Hey, that's actually a really good idea that Antti has.
Real-time play testing.
If we were to do it over Skype, the tester would be able to communicate his/her thoughts while playing the game while the creator takes notes and observes.

I full support indepepth testing, and if anyone would like me to test over Skype, you can add me at lilNeikun
I would gladly help anyone (when I have time)

Also, should we create a thread for available testers?

[SpiderFighter]

Hey, that's actually a really good idea that Antti has.
Real-time play testing.
If we were to do it over Skype, the tester would be able to communicate his/her thoughts while playing the game while the creator takes notes and observes.

I full support indepepth testing, and if anyone would like me to test over Skype, you can add me at lilNeikun
I would gladly help anyone (when I have time)

Also, should we create a thread for available testers?

I am so for this! Great idea, and I'd love to do the Skype thing..would prove very useful. A separate thread is a great idea, Neikun.

[Neikun]

Thread created!

[Alcator]

Advice 1: Experiential Density
This term comes from VALVE -- the guys behind Half-Life and Portal.

What it boils down to is "How much time has elapsed since the last interesting thing happened?"

You will want the player to "have an experience" every X seconds/minutes. Notice that it is measured in TIME, which is a bit tricky.
There are dungeon makers who count squares between events or encounters, but that's not really a good idea, because players do not progress at the same pace.

Of course, as the designer, you cannot measure Exp.Dens. yourself. You need a playtester, and observe them.

Advice 2: Gradual hints
Especially with puzzles and secrets, you should think about the possibility that the player gets stuck. One thing you may do is attach counters to puzzle alcoves, and whenever something incorrect is placed into them, you'd decrement the value of such counter (which starts at eg. value 10). When the counter reaches 0, it means they've tried 10 incorrect things in the alcove, so they are clearly either stuck, or trying everything possible in panic. That's the moment you may want to give them a hint -- perhaps via a "dialogue"

Code: Select all

hudPrint(party:getChampion(3):getName()..": *Hm... Now that I think about it, the riddle talks about blood -- perhaps the answer is some weapon?*)

Advice 3: Train them in what they will need
Before challenging the players with some really tough thing, they should be given "a training". So, if you intend to hide a lot of secret buttons at crazy locations, put them first into a very small room from which they cannot escape, and let them find one such hidden button. This will create "Aha! So in this dungeon, buttons are frequently hidden between bones on walls!" understanding, and then, later, when they see bones on walls, they will go and check them. You just have to keep your promise and frequently re-train them in the "skill" by hiding buttons into bones. Not everytime, but perhaps 30-40% time it should be there.

Advice 4: Announce success
Have they opened a door that you meant to be the end of a puzzle? you can use playSound("level_up") to sound a nice jingle, or place a wall_text just behind it, saying something like "Your heart is pure, you may pass." -- this will inform the player that they have, indeed, succeeded. Nothing is worse than solving a puzzle but not realizing it and returning back in search of "the next part", which is not there.

Advice 5: Combine monster types
No monster in the whole game, besides the Cube, is dangerous on its own. Every single one of them can be killed with a stupid dagger as long as you can do the "stab-sidestep-turn-rinse-and-repeat" sequence.
To make a fight challenging/more interesting, you will want to combine a ranged and a melee enemy. The ranged one will be attacking the player group from a side, while they are occupied with the melee attacker.
To make it more challenging, add a 2nd melee monster, so there's a risk of being overwhelmed/cornered.
Without this, the combat will not be fun at all. I'm not saying make every combat like that, but a good portion of them should be like that, otherwise you will hear SolitaryDrake keep saying "Well, that was anticlimactic..."

[SpiderFighter]

Good to see this thread still being used. Great advice, Alcator...I really like the idea of gradual hints.

[Komag]

Alcator, good words, I wish every mod author around here would follow them!

[Alcator]

Alcator, good words, I wish every mod author around here would follow them!

I'm guilty of not following them myself

At least in The Tower of Bones -- watching SolitaryDrake play the mod on youtube is tooth-gritting

But I'm improving, all the time...

[Ixnatifual]

You forgot the most important design principle, which at least one person here is guilty of not following:

- Don't release a big must-play mod before I'm done with Heart of the Swarm.