Few intresting Questions about unarmed combat...

[gandalfrockman]

I realize its entirely possible that no-one knows the answers to these questions yet, but seeing as how Lex has answered a great many seemingly un-knowable questions through careful analysis of the video footage available I thought I would ask.

1.Is it possible to make unarmed attacks from the back row using "Reach Attack"
-This could be a lot of fun just to uber specialize a skull carrying unarmed combat minotaur for max damage.

2.Are characters wielding shields considered "unarmed" what about Dual wielding shields?
-This was an option in dungeons of dredmor, you could wield a shield in each hand, and still fight "unarmed", between the defense from two shields, the bonuses for "dual wielding" and the bonuses for unarmed you were an unstoppable if somewhat low damage killing machine that was virtually impossible to strike.

3. Is the evasion stat a percentage?
-Seems Low enough... and that would make optimization alot easier than if it uses some complicated formula.

[Lex]

ad.1. I think not - I saw that reviewers were trying to click on hands of characters in back row and were getting something like miss or can't reach - edit: it's "Can't reach" message - I've just confirmed this.
ad.2. I think all you need to have to do unarmed attack is free hand (edit: but on videos I saw, no one tried to click on shield so maybe it will work?). As you are using wielded weapon by clicking on it then if you click on one unarmed hand it should perform unarmed attack (and it shouldn't matter what you have in your second hand) - so I think even wielding sword and having second hand free you can still perform unarmed attack by clicking on that hand.
ad.3. I think not - Ninja Master skill alone gives you

SpoilerShow

Evasion +50

and freshly created character can have

SpoilerShow

probably over 25

- adding to that other Evasion sources it can be over 100.

[gandalfrockman]

Thanks for the answers...
ITs really hard to tell right now if Dodge tanking will be Viable...

What weapons does reach attack work with?

[Lex]

What weapons does reach attack work with?

I think the only one we know about at this moment is spear.

[gandalfrockman]

so what good is the reach attack skill?
and what does it mean by "melee weapon"?

[Hissssa]

Petri has clarified that you only get the bonus for the fighting style if you are attacking with that weapon. We don't know if you're even allowed to perform a shield bash but "dual wielding shields" will not let you fight unarmed. A shield is covered by the armor skill so you'll have to think of something else.

From what we've been told and what we know it seems that protection is a means of damage reduction and evasion is a means of avoiding damage completely. I can't say for sure but I suspect there is a 99% chance that evasion is not a percentage chance of avoiding an attack; rather it is a relative chance (30 is more than 40, etc). Without breaking down the code or being told by the developers we'll be in the dark about the exact effects.

I am wondering lex if the video you were watching had a rogue with the reach skill. I really don't see why they would prohibit you from combining reach attacks with unarmed strikes (could be a bug).

The reach skill lets someone in the back row use melee attacks. Normally only the front 2 characters can use melee and be hit by melee attacks. Rogues with the reach skill and spears break this rule allowing you to attack from "range".

Petri has made a comment regarding that evasion tanking can be just as effective as heavy armor tanking somewhere on these boards.

[Lex]

so what good is the reach attack skill?
and what does it mean by "melee weapon"?

I misunderstood your previous question, sorry for that. I thought you were asking about "reach weapon", not "reach attack" bonus which you are getting after skill point investment.

So to clarify it should have been: "I think the only one reach weapon we know about at this moment is spear."
But now answering your question properly: Reach attack works with any melee weapon = it means with any sword, mace, even spear.

Small addon about shield: I've just found a video where reviewer was trying to click on shield (at least it looked like he was to) and nothing happened - so probably bare hand is the only way to use skills for unarmed combat.

[Lex]

I am wondering lex if the video you were watching had a rogue with the reach skill. I really don't see why they would prohibit you from combining reach attacks with unarmed strikes (could be a bug).

No, as this skill needs some investment, but it says "melee weapon" = for me "weapon" is rather something you can wield. But I may be wrong of course in the end (it could be the same case like ranged weapons are not affected by Accuracy which seems a little weird for me).

[Tarnim]

Hi,

i'm very interested in trying an unarmed backrow assasin (Minotaur can gain an huge amount of Strenght in those specs), so maybe someone has already tried out, if barehanded counts for reach attack?

Tarnim

[HeavyMetalMonk]

It does. My rogue can attack from the back row barehanded.