[Map for CFD2012 ] "The Descent" -File and discussion thread

[JohnWordsworth]

Just downloaded - will play through over lunch and get back to you in about 4-5 hours with feedback .

[SpiderFighter]

Just downloaded - will play through over lunch and get back to you in about 4-5 hours with feedback .

Thanks so much, John; I really needed someone with a better PC than mine to test it. Hopefully, this will be the last time. Fingers crossed!

[JohnWordsworth]

Hi John, some more feedback!

SpoilerShow

- Imported Level 13 Party from my previous main-game run through.

- Got chest. Killed snail. Killed skeleton. Got gloves. Read note. Got torch. Saved.

- (A) I jumped down the Ogre pit and it automatically teleported me up again. I found this a bit confusing as I thought I should be at the bottom of the pit at this point. Perhaps just have a button that teleports you from that square up whenever you want?

- Crossed pit trap. Opened door.

BUG: I opened the door and stepped into the room that triggers the Ogre. I then turned around and lured the Ogre into the Pit trap. Then I went back to the first side of the pit trap and slept (as the Ogre hit me the first time). I was then awoken and attacked by a spider, which I killed. I then jumped down the pit after the Ogre to kill him and there was an invulnerable spider in his place! The Ogre was there and died, but I shared space with a spider temporarily and then he seemed invulnerable. (See Video).

- Reloaded and circumvented bug by jumping down straight after the Ogre.

- It was cool jumping down and seeing the Ogre die when I squished it . In fact, I really like this 'post-pit' experience now.

- Watched / Lured the Ogre and the Skeleton into the Pit trap. Mwahaha.

- Opened the stairs up with the Torch. But what if I didn't have a torch? Adding a teleport button to the Ogre trap as suggested above (A) would fix that?

- Went upstairs. Killed the spider. Destroyed 3 Gobelins. Looted skeleton sword (awesome altar/alcove usage!).

- Even though I understand the teleporter puzzle, it still frustrated me a little. I think what I dislike is that you have to fail a lot of times to pass the puzzle. There are no clues BEFORE you hit a wrong button that it's a wrong button - so you have to try each button in turn and write down the correct path. If I recall, there are 6-7 junctions in the puzzle, and if you happen to choose the wrong 2 buttons every time, that means that you have to go through the maze 14 times to complete it - and that could be the best for someone who is very unlucky when you KNOW what's going on.

- Used teleporter to kill skeleton and avoid damage from Spider

- Love the riddles for the potion ingredients. Unfortunately, I still don't have a mortar!

- Killed skeletons. Got key, beetle. Flask and Mortar and Pestle. Yay! Very minor clipping of note in the room in this room (see screenshot). Nice note though. Left room.

- STUCK!? I can't seem to get out of the room with the small herder in the cage. I killed the spider, took the torch from his little room and then found the secret with the bomb. However, the herder cage door was still closed and I couldn't get through to the archer/pit room as that cage was also still closed. Couldn't find any secret buttons and tried many combinations of torches in the torch holders.

Mostly just general feedback, but two major things in there (the BUG and the STUCK!? lines). Video of Bug and screenshot referenced can be found here (please give it 10 minutes to upload!).

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/6102574/descent-09j.zip

[SpiderFighter]

Hi John, thanks for everything! WIll respond in more detail later, but just two quick things:

SpoilerShow

Hi John, some more feedback!

- Opened the stairs up with the Torch. But what if I didn't have a torch? Adding a teleport button to the Ogre trap as suggested above (A) would fix that?

There are at least 5 (maybe 6) torches available to the player down there. Also a good mace
SPOILER --> Place something on the empty alcove and it will open the wall beside you where you'll find a torch (also two secret buttons that will let you into the area where the warrior traps the ogre, where you'll find many torches, plus the mace (maybe a shuriken or two...can't recall). <--END SPOILER

- STUCK!? I can't seem to get out of the room with the small herder in the cage. I killed the spider, took the torch from his little room and then found the secret with the bomb. However, the herder cage door was still closed and I couldn't get through to the archer/pit room as that cage was also still closed. Couldn't find any secret buttons and tried many combinations of torches in the torch holders.
Mostly just general feedback, but two major things in there (the BUG and the STUCK!? lines). Video of Bug and screenshot referenced can be found here (please give it 10 minutes to upload!).

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/6102574/descent-09j.zip

Remember where you found the note about eternal light? Give that skeleton the torch you found.

Thanks, by the way, for all the pictures and videos you do; they're extremely useful. And, as always, for your patience. I'll check out that bug, right now I'm not quite sure how it happened, but I'll check out the video.

[JohnWordsworth]

Hi SpiderFighter,

SpoilerShow

1. Spider Bug: Yeah, weird one that. The video will probably make you go 'ahh' and then something will go click I'm sure :p.

2. Torches: Cool . I remember finding the secret buttons last time, but I couldn't find them this time. I was kind of speed-running through to get to where I was before as I'd already played it, so I'm sure I would've worked that out in the vague chance I didn't have a torch.

3. Ahh, okay - cool puzzle! To be honest, I gave up very quickly as that door used to open automatically, so I presumed it was the bug that I found before when your connector went walk about :p. Will reload and continue, as I saved it there.

More notes to follow soon

[SpiderFighter]

SpoilerShow

Hi SpiderFighter,

3. Ahh, okay - cool puzzle! [Re: Giving the torch to the skelly corpse].

You think so? I was worried it was just another tired variation of an alcove puzzle. Oh, and the picture: What you see as clipping, I actually took time positioning so it would look like dirt was pooled on top of the note! lol! If you think it looks bad, I can fix it easily.

More notes to follow soon

You're not sick of this thing yet? There's a bit of a masochist in you, methinks. (Seriously, you know by now how much I appreciate you and everything you've done on this.)

Replies to your notes from earlier:

- It was cool jumping down and seeing the Ogre die when I squished it . In fact, I really like this 'post-pit' experience now

Thanks; I do too, and it's all because you rightly called me on being lazy. I thought about making it more interactive with more puzzles and combat downstairs, but the focus of the map is that giant cage with the marching patrols, and I thought adding more downstairs would take the player too long to get to the "point" of the map.

- Even though I understand the teleporter puzzle, it still frustrated me a little. I think what I dislike is that you have to fail a lot of times to pass the puzzle. There are no clues BEFORE you hit a wrong button that it's a wrong button - so you have to try each button in turn and write down the correct path. If I recall, there are 6-7 junctions in the puzzle, and if you happen to choose the wrong 2 buttons every time, that means that you have to go through the maze 14 times to complete it - and that could be the best for someone who is very unlucky when you KNOW what's going on.

Here's the skinny on that puzzle: If you name the buttons from left to right A, B, and C, the sequence of buttons is always BBACAB - 6 buttons. But I want a puzzle to be engaging, not frustrating, and this puzzle was frustrating right from the get-go. And so, it must die! I'm not yet sure what will go there. It's a huge room, and it really does cry out for a puzzle at that stage of the game (because there hasn't really been anything major yet). When I get it done though, would you mind if I set you up right at that spot to have you test it for me, please (I'd just send you a PM with the link)? I think the rest of the map is finally stable (still need to look at the spider video and figure that out though), so you should be done beating yourself over the head with it!

- - Love the riddles for the potion ingredients. Unfortunately, I still don't have a mortar!

Yeah, that's just me teasing you a bit. Plus, I'm assuming that there will be a mortar on a lower level anyway (I believe Brodie has one on his level 1 map).

Ok...off to the spider!

[JohnWordsworth]

Hi John,

Some more bad news I'm afraid!

SpoilerShow

- Torch in Skeleton (you can put more than one here and it's not obvious - not sure you can do anything about that though?). Killed mini-herder. Pulled lever. Walked down new corridor. Killed spider. Got Huntsman cloak. Pressed button, pulled lever, used cruciform key. Went down cruciform corridor first. Door opened. Killed skeletons. Opened gate.

- Hacked up gobelins. Found teleporter button. Found shuriken and teleport home button. Threw shuriken in room (perhaps it should teleport back outside somewhere incase it was a more valuable item like a quest item?). Found bread and archer pit room. Made it across the pits nice and easy. I like it though - as it traps you over with the skeleton archers. Destroyed all gobelins.

- Jumped down pit for giggles (didn't realise at the time it was important - but it was - Huzzah). Killed crowern and snails. Took gems. Back upstairs. Crossed pits again.

- Walked through wall in back left corner of the archer pit room. One way Illusionary Wall (spotted on map) - Intentional? Note that you can't destroy the tapestry on the backside of that call but you can the front. Perhaps that wall should look different (only one without a hanging tapestry perhaps, or perhaps you can't destroy the tapestry from either side?).

- Tried to kite Crowern, lots of fireballs -> Game Over.

- Reloaded, killed Crowern standing still. Stepped forward to get Gem. Fireballs started. Ran across room to press button (found loads). Lots of Fireballs - Game Over.

- Reloaded, figured out puzzle. Got blue gem and restricted key. Could go back through Illusionary wall again. Pits frozen closed. Nice surprise . Is this a problem if I hadn't already jumped down and got the jewels from the Crowerns?

- Hungry for death room next. Killed herder. Saved Game. Took serpent bracer. Replaced with skull. Door opened but Ogres were in the way -> Death!

- Desperate for Treasure (Bracers)… Reloaded.

Each of these scenarios was played through from a fresh load of the Serpent Room...

1. Place sword in alcove (serpent bracers still there). Ogre trap triggered.

2. Place skull in alcove (serpent bracers still there) -> Best result (got bracers, ogres still trapped).

3. Took bracers and replaced with skull -> Too slow, Ogres released! Led down corridor to murder.

4. Place skull in alcove (serpent bracers still there) -> Took serpent bracers (good result) -> Placed sword in altar -> Triggered Trap with no way out. (BUG??)

- Used restricted key. Killed spider. Next room. Read note. Killed crowern and herders. Wrong order - oops, (intentional to open pit) fell down hole! Killed spider. Back to room. Correct order.

- Killed 2 spiders and herder. Tome of Health given to Minotaur (he was angry at me because I took his shiny skull away earlier - this cheered him up). Found button behind tapestry. Found round shield.

- Killed 8 Skeletons in an epic display of manliness. Stepped into skeleton room INSTANT CRASH (no error popup). However, there was an error log (attached).

Reloaded.

- Opened skeleton door and ran in room before killing the 8 skeletons. CRASH TO DESKTOP.

Reloaded.

- Killed 8 skeletons. Rested ages (to see if it helped). Entered room - CRASH again.

Crash Report

Barring the little hiccups though it's a top quality dungeon - I've been really enjoying it. A nice mix of thinking and fighting (which I like).

[JohnWordsworth]

Please take some of my comments as 'just what I'm thinking' and not gripes (unless they are obviously so). For instance "still no mortar" was what just came to mind - I didn't mind . Typically, anything I think could be better I'll either say so, or try to offer a suggestion as to how. Also assumed there would be an axe on a previous level for instance, so didn't mention anything about my poor minotaur who has Axe skill 30+ :p. (He was clearly over powered anyway).

SpoilerShow

Yeah, I do like the idea of a A teleporter puzzle, I just think that it either needs to be tweaked slightly or have a different clue. It's just the fact you have to keep failing and remember which bits made you fail that I don't like (you can't just work it out).

Idea: Maybe you could have a poem containing different synonyms of the words forward/left/right. For example: When I went ahead [forward] and left [left] the advance guard [forward] I knew it was the right [right] thing to do. I boarded my ship, cast the sails portside [left] and never looked back [behind].

Idea: Another word puzzle... 7 Words on different lines, each starting with either L[eft], F[orward], or R[ight], B[ehind].

Fortune
Favours
Righteous
Fighters
Leave
Folly
Behind

I don't expect either to be used verbatim (and both might still be too hard), but some random thoughts from my mind for you to chew on!

More than happy to play through any parts again with fixes. I can obviously blast through it pretty quickly now and would love to see the end!

[SpiderFighter]

Please take some of my comments as 'just what I'm thinking' and not gripes (unless they are obviously so). For instance "still no mortar" was what just came to mind - I didn't mind .

No worries; I never took it that way!

[Xanathar]

SpoilerShow

A teleporter puzzle, I just think that it either needs to be tweaked slightly or have a different clue. It's just the fact you have to keep failing and remember which bits made you fail that I don't like (you can't just work it out).

With all the versions of the hint scroll in the various releases, I always interpreted it as "make sure you press the button which is in the direction you generally want to go" (which is south)". And so I attempted it by carefully checking my direction and always pressing the southern button (of course it failed).