[Map for CFD2012 ] "The Descent" -File and discussion thread

[SpiderFighter]

Due to my releasing it prematurely, discussion for this map began overtaking other threads, so I've moved it here. Based on suggestions/comments from Brodie301,John Wordsworth (I always picture him with a pipe in his mouth and wearing a smoking jacket; must be the name), and Komag, This seems to be a stable release; I've played through the exported file twice, making major and minor changes (including some too-obscure clues) and generally trying to break things. Of course, I'm not seeing it through fresh eyes, so I'd greatly appreciate anyone who wants to give it a run-through!

At the start, you will find a few things that won't be in the final version. Because this is a level 3 map, you'll see a box to your left containing some lower level gear. Equip what you want and open the portcullis to kill the special snail. That should give you enough experience to level to 3. When you are ready, press the wall button in front of you to open the remaining two portcullises (portcullii?), and from that point on, you'll experience the map like everyone else will once the Frungeon is released.

I'd really appreciate any input anyone can give me, comments or criticisms. Thanks for taking the time to read this (and, hopefully, play it!).

Download "The Descent" (intended for the Community Frankendungeon 2012) Current version is 0.9j

EDIT: Please Read! In the Frankendungeon, all maps start with a green tele (entrance) and end with a red one (exit). Since the other maps haven't yet been stitched around this one, they don't lead anywhere. Also, the exp has been toned down, because Haunter and Eds are expecting a lot more maps than the original game, so people would level far too quickly. We were also asked to tone down item placement, which is why you may not find, for example, a particular piece of armor. That said, it is absolutely playable from start to finish (well,version 0.9j wasn't. Sorry about that!).

***********EVERYTHING BELOW THIS LINE CONTAINS SPOILERS!****************

[Komag]

here's my playthrough notes: (playtime 1h19m)

SpoilerShow

went in green teleport, screwed
restart
got gear, killed snail, leveled up a couple times, arranged stuff
opened gates, killed warrior
like note
gate blended with hidden door pillar, looks odd
dropped in pit - teleported back up
dropped spear in pit, it's lost
jumped in pit after it, it didn't teleport back with me
jumped in pit after it again, was able to grab it fast and teleport up with it (but Sancsaron dead, crystal!)
ogre came along, dropped him in pit! - seemed to open a gate nearby
killed a spider
found sword, nothing else
jumped down pit to squish ogre, he's not there, but a key is, and no return teleport, surprise
push button (repeat push doesn't shut door), step, button, step, stomp stomp stomp, scared, walls open, no ogre?!
found rocks, rock in alcove, door opening, remove rock no effect
got torch, lit wall light, stairs - stairs work different - on top and bottom I'm one square ahead of usual
jump back down pit, through again, nothing new
try one rock in each alcove, nothing
back up stairs
key in lock, get torch (did it make my current torch dim? must be coincidence)
teleported all over teh place, no idea what I did
found gobbly text, tar bead, gobelin with button behind
frustrating
can't teleport anywhere it seems, just random
somehow ended up with another gobelin
found a rock
can't get anywhere, hopelessly stuck
left - back
straight, left, left, back
straight, left, straight, back
straight, left, other buttons nothing
straight, straight, straight, (left/right nothing), behind, back
straight, straight, straight, back!
repeat that pattern, every other time is switched, why?
straight, right, back
straight, straight, left (gobelin), left, back
straight, straight, left g, right, straight, back
straight, straight, left g, right, left, straight, NEW PLACE gobelin, rip for secret Antivenom, back to new place
(any of those other buttons in all the tele rooms do anything?)
fight spiders, warrior
torch in holder, secret door
got high up key from crypt, fought group (xp has been nerfed on monster so far?)
make way back, fight spider (poisoned! sleep - cheating, but hey)
step in new area, monster closet with spider from behind!
hmm, button or lever first?
lever - door opens partly
button - other door opens
gear key opens regular lock! wander hallway
group open door, quickly push button keep them in there!
let them out, lead back to room to fight in, kill
back to room the came from, button behind left gobelin
ah, torch dying!
button - short tele
button - run to tele, boom, in room, door shut
mino hungry, eat beatle
gobelin button, back out of room, door open in there
to back in there, see plate, put rock on, other door opens, take rock off, ONCE ONLY plate!
hey, there's a gobelin in there!
can't figure way to deal with that now
in new hall, note of death, path
alternating trapdoors, archers
lever switches doors, but button opens first again so both open now
ran across, killed archers
exploring, fell in pit!
kill snail, kill crowern, green gem
kill other snail, crowern, red gem
find stairs (these ones are normal)
gobelin won't cut - walk through! HEY, closed behind me!
This room looks ominous
RUN FROM FIREBALLS! hit by one, hit button, safe
kill crowern, blue gem
can go back through gobelin!
button on new wall in middle - wait till later
key, trapdoors all shut now
back to start area (before pressing that new button)
explore tele maze again
straight, straight, left g, right, left, left, back
straight, straight, left g, right, left, right, new place, shuriken, right (nothing), left (nothing), behind, back
I think that's it
back to button
got new key - for what?
tried broke door, lever down and up fast, worked!
fight spider, killed, NEW LEVEL! learn light spell, no more darkness!
don't have any light armor for light armor proficiency
ah, finally found other lock for forbidden key
fought spider
oepn ports, fight crowern
found clue - about crowern gems
I only have three?
Ah, found yellow key just dropped in last fight
rainbow... red orange yellow green blue indego violet
red yellow green blue
did it, seemed to work, good sound
plate - statue fire blob, door open
no chance to open pits now? want to jump down and see, too bad
step in hall, hear door close
fought spiders
gobelins, two buttons
book (secret??)
button right - nothing?
button left - wall opening
getting hungry, eat a little
fight group
step in room, wall close me in!
fight group
plenty of shields to use for plates around red tele
hmm, tele take me nowhere, just one square
item in tele same thing
explore
go back, put colors in wrong, BOOM, FALL!
fight spider, hear door closing/opening somewhere
leather hat, woohoo!
that's it, no more places?
red tele supposed to be exit?
could never get in cage room with gobelin, teleporters, nothing works

[SpiderFighter]

here's my playthrough notes: (playtime 1h19m)

Wow! That's an amazing narrative, Komag...felt like I was playing right along with you. I can't imagine how you played and wrote at the same time. I've responded immediately below your comments.

SpoilerShow

went in green teleport, screwed [snip] red tele supposed to be exit?

Yes, I'm sorry. I assumed since we had been talking about it for so long, that people who tested this map would know, but that was my fault for not explaining it. In the Frankendungeon, all maps start with a green tele (entrance) and end with a red one (exit). Since the other maps haven't yet been stitched around this one, they don't lead anywhere. Also,(as you noticed), the exp has been toned down, because Haunter and Eds are expecting a lot more maps than the original game, so people would level far too quickly. We were also asked to tone down item placement, which is why there's not a whole lot of useful things there, which is another thing I should have mentioned.

like note
gate blended with hidden door pillar, looks odd
dropped in pit - teleported back up

I'm not sure what you mean here. Is it a grating or a portcullis?

dropped spear in pit, it's lost
jumped in pit after it, it didn't teleport back with me
jumped in pit after it again, was able to grab it fast and teleport up with it (but Sancsaron dead, crystal!)
ogre came along, dropped him in pit! - seemed to open a gate nearby
killed a spider
found sword, nothing else
jumped down pit to squish ogre, he's not there, but a key is, and no return teleport, surprise

See? THAT'S the kind of stuff I would never think of to do! Brilliant. Should I make him squishable, do you think? Would that be more satisfying to the player? The funny thing is, in the map I originally had for the Frungeon, I had 3 squishy ogres, but I killed the idea. Figures!

push button (repeat push doesn't shut door), step, button, step, stomp stomp stomp, scared, walls open, no ogre?!
found rocks, rock in alcove, door opening, remove rock no effect
got torch, lit wall light, stairs - stairs work different - on top and bottom I'm one square ahead of usual
jump back down pit, through again, nothing new
try one rock in each alcove, nothing
back up stairs
key in lock, get torch (did it make my current torch dim? must be coincidence)

The downstairs is really a no-brainer, a gimme, but I'm getting the impression people want something with more substance down there. I can do that! Good eye on noting the stairs, too; I'll check that out. Thanks.

teleported all over teh place, no idea what I did
found gobbly text, tar bead, gobelin with button behind
frustrating
can't teleport anywhere it seems, just random
somehow ended up with another gobelin
found a rock
can't get anywhere, hopelessly stuck
left - back
straight, left, left, back
straight, left, straight, back
straight, left, other buttons nothing
straight, straight, straight, (left/right nothing), behind, back
straight, straight, straight, back!
repeat that pattern, every other time is switched, why?
straight, right, back
straight, straight, left (gobelin), left, back
straight, straight, left g, right, straight, back
straight, straight, left g, right, left, straight, NEW PLACE gobelin, rip for secret Antivenom, back to new place
(any of those other buttons in all the tele rooms do anything?)

Did you read the scroll at the start of that tele maze? There's a pretty big hint on it. (I'll explain below) And, yes, they do something, but until you, it hadn't been tested!

[snip]

gear key opens regular lock! wander hallway
group open door, quickly push button keep them in there!
let them out, lead back to room to fight in, kill

Wow, you must have been fast to lock them in like that! NIcely done. The key is not a "Gear key" any more, none of the keys are the LoG keys. I think the gear shaped one is called a Cruciform Key in the game. I get what you're saying though; you're right, and I can certainly change it.

back to room the came from, button behind left gobelin
ah, torch dying!
button - short tele
button - run to tele, boom, in room, door shut
mino hungry, eat beatle
gobelin button, back out of room, door open in there
to back in there, see plate, put rock on, other door opens, take rock off, ONCE ONLY plate!
hey, there's a gobelin in there!
can't figure way to deal with that now

Ok, I'm intrigued: How the heck did you get through the grate that shuts once you tele in there, in order to place the rock on the plate (and remove it)? You definitely dealt with it differently than I had intended (which was to throw the rock through the tele). The gobelin is a red herring.

in new hall, note of death, path
alternating trapdoors, archers
lever switches doors, but button opens first again so both open now
ran across, killed archers
exploring, fell in pit!
kill snail, kill crowern, green gem
kill other snail, crowern, red gem
find stairs (these ones are normal)
gobelin won't cut - walk through! HEY, closed behind me!
This room looks ominous
RUN FROM FIREBALLS! hit by one, hit button, safe

Cool...I'm glad you figured that one out. I wasn't sure how obvious the solution would be. Or...were you just lucky? I'm not sure from your description. The solution is to walk on the path (like the note you found says). As long as you walk on the dirt, you're safe. A little Indiana Jones tribute there. lol

kill crowern, blue gem
can go back through gobelin!
button on new wall in middle - wait till later
key, trapdoors all shut now
back to start area (before pressing that new button)
explore tele maze again
straight, straight, left g, right, left, left, back
straight, straight, left g, right, left, right, new place, shuriken, right (nothing), left (nothing), behind, back
I think that's it
back to button
got new key - for what?
tried broke door, lever down and up fast, worked!
fight spider, killed, NEW LEVEL! learn light spell, no more darkness!
don't have any light armor for light armor proficiency
ah, finally found other lock for forbidden key
fought spider
oepn ports, fight crowern
found clue - about crowern gems
I only have three?
Ah, found yellow key just dropped in last fight
rainbow... red orange yellow green blue indego violet
red yellow green blue
did it, seemed to work, good sound
plate - statue fire blob, door open
no chance to open pits now? want to jump down and see, too bad
step in hall, hear door close
fought spiders
gobelins, two buttons
book (secret??)

You did it! Thanks for testing that book for me. lol That's what all those switches that don't seem to do anything in the tele maze are for. Originally, they were all going to trigger teles, but I didn't want people to shut the game off (and I'm sure I would have). The key to navigating that maze is to look at your map. The scroll says: "If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading. -Lao Tzu" As you pick up the scroll, you're facing south. As long as each tele brings you out facing south, you're on the right path. Every other tele brings you out facing a different direction.

could never get in cage room with gobelin, teleporters, nothing works

This really intrigues me...so you weren't able to place the rock - OH!! You just stood outside the grating and placed the rock on it? D'oh! *runs off to test* Oh, bother!! That...completely ruins that lovely little puzzle I had set up. Hmm. I forgot you could do that. I'll have to rethink the room now.

Thanks so much, Komag. Your comments were invaluable. I'll update the OP to let people know about the restrictions of the Frungeon (and the red/green teles).

[Komag]

like note
gate blended with hidden door pillar, looks odd
dropped in pit - teleported back up

I'm not sure what you mean here. Is it a grating or a portcullis?

first lock, portcullis on left, left side of it overlaps a pillar which is one of the sides of the hidden door wall there

dropped spear in pit, it's lost
jumped in pit after it, it didn't teleport back with me
jumped in pit after it again, was able to grab it fast and teleport up with it (but Sancsaron dead, crystal!)
ogre came along, dropped him in pit! - seemed to open a gate nearby
killed a spider
found sword, nothing else
jumped down pit to squish ogre, he's not there, but a key is, and no return teleport, surprise

See? THAT'S the kind of stuff I would never think of to do! Brilliant. Should I make him squishable, do you think? Would that be more satisfying to the player? The funny thing is, in the map I originally had for the Frungeon, I had 3 squishy ogres, but I killed the idea. Figures!

Yeah, he should still be there to be squished! very satisfying

Did you read the scroll at the start of that tele maze? There's a pretty big hint on it. (I'll explain below) And, yes, they do something, but until you, it hadn't been tested!

I read it but it didn't seem to work for me. I expected that the teleporters would turn me, and that I just needed to always face south BEFORE hitting the next button, since that's the only thing I can directly control

back to room the came from, button behind left gobelin
ah, torch dying!
button - short tele
button - run to tele, boom, in room, door shut
mino hungry, eat beatle
gobelin button, back out of room, door open in there
to back in there, see plate, put rock on, other door opens, take rock off, ONCE ONLY plate!
hey, there's a gobelin in there!
can't figure way to deal with that now

Ok, I'm intrigued: How the heck did you get through the grate that shuts once you tele in there, in order to place the rock on the plate (and remove it)? You definitely dealt with it differently than I had intended (which was to throw the rock through the tele). The gobelin is a red herring.

just placed rock through bars. I like the idea of throwing, could just do it with solid wall in front and wooden door on side, maybe

in new hall, note of death, path
alternating trapdoors, archers
lever switches doors, but button opens first again so both open now
ran across, killed archers
exploring, fell in pit!
kill snail, kill crowern, green gem
kill other snail, crowern, red gem
find stairs (these ones are normal)
gobelin won't cut - walk through! HEY, closed behind me!
This room looks ominous
RUN FROM FIREBALLS! hit by one, hit button, safe

Cool...I'm glad you figured that one out. I wasn't sure how obvious the solution would be. Or...were you just lucky? I'm not sure from your description. The solution is to walk on the path (like the note you found says). As long as you walk on the dirt, you're safe. A little Indiana Jones tribute there. lol

I had no idea about the dirt, I just started running around in there, fireballs started firing, I ran across and hit a button. I recall the note said something about seeing your path, didn't know what it meant, I thought it was something like need to clear away all the gobelins to clear the walls to see them

You did it! Thanks for testing that book for me. lol That's what all those switches that don't seem to do anything in the tele maze are for. Originally, they were all going to trigger teles, but I didn't want people to shut the game off (and I'm sure I would have). The key to navigating that maze is to look at your map. The scroll says: "If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading. -Lao Tzu" As you pick up the scroll, you're facing south. As long as each tele brings you out facing south, you're on the right path. Every other tele brings you out facing a different direction.

I personally don't like far away connections that I have no way of knowing were connected, just seems sorta random in those cases. But I know some players are fine with that, so don't change it just because of my own tastes.

could never get in cage room with gobelin, teleporters, nothing works

This really intrigues me...so you weren't able to place the rock - OH!! You just stood outside the grating and placed the rock on it? D'oh! *runs off to test* Oh, bother!! That...completely ruins that lovely little puzzle I had set up. Hmm. I forgot you could do that. I'll have to rethink the room now.

Thanks so much, Komag. Your comments were invaluable. I'll update the OP to let people know about the restrictions of the Frungeon (and the red/green teles).

I forgot to mention that I really liked the dungeon, I wanted it to go on further! I grew to like the tightness of it with the thin walls, though at first I thought I didn't like that aspect.

This was a really cool experience and very well done I think.

[Neikun]

I want to play, but I'm tired and should be working on my retexturing tutorial.

[SpiderFighter]

@Komag:

SpoilerShow

first lock, portcullis on left, left side of it overlaps a pillar which is one of the sides of the hidden door wall there

Gotcha, thanks. I'll look at it this morning.

jumped down pit to squish ogre, he's not there, but a key is, and no return teleport, surprise

Yeah, he should still be there to be squished! very satisfying

I'll do that, and I'll also throw some other stuff down there. I just didn't want to slam the player with so many puzzles so early, as I knew that tele puzzle was coming up.

Did you read the scroll at the start of that tele maze? There's a pretty big hint on it. (I'll explain below) And, yes, they do something, but until you, it hadn't been tested!

I read it but it didn't seem to work for me. I expected that the teleporters would turn me, and that I just needed to always face south BEFORE hitting the next button, since that's the only thing I can directly control

That seemed to obvious to me. I still think it's one of those puzzles that makes you go "OH!" once you realize, but if it's so frustrating that people never figure it out, then that's no good, and I need to cut it loose.

just placed rock through bars. I like the idea of throwing, could just do it with solid wall in front and wooden door on side, maybe

But it's not fair to the player if they can't see the plate. I'll have to see what I can come up with.

I had no idea about the dirt, I just started running around in there, fireballs started firing, I ran across and hit a button. I recall the note said something about seeing your path, didn't know what it meant, I thought it was something like need to clear away all the gobelins to clear the walls to see them

Just for future reference: If you ever play anything of mine again, I''ll never just randomly throw things at you without a lifeline. I think that's poor (or at the very least, lazy) design. I like how you thought it meant something different, though!

I personally don't like far away connections that I have no way of knowing were connected, just seems sorta random in those cases. But I know some players are fine with that, so don't change it just because of my own tastes.

I don't like far away connections, either, believe it or not. The clue about the "path" in relation to the fireball room is about as far away as I'll ever get. In this case, though, I didn't want the switches to be nothing, but we were asked to not throw tomes in there unless it was really well hidden (and I knew the player would never make the connection to those buttons). I think if you ever play "The Hub," you 'll get a better sense of my design asthetics without having to conform to the rules, so I hope this experience didn't turn you off from playing anything by me again.

I forgot to mention that I really liked the dungeon, I wanted it to go on further! I grew to like the tightness of it with the thin walls, though at first I thought I didn't like that aspect.

This was a really cool experience and very well done I think.

Thanks so much, that means a lot coming from you. And your comments were absolutely invaluable!
(As an aside, I actually had a whole other section of the dungeon that I cut out because I thought maybe I was gilding the lily, and it was taking the player away from that central cage with the red portal. After reading your thoughts though, I think I'm going to extend that lower level a bit, and build the ending a bit better so you can see it coming (and kill those two buttons at the end! Wth was I thinking?!? I blame the insomnia.)

I want to play, but I'm tired and should be working on my retexturing tutorial.

No worries, my friend. I can't wait to see that tutorial...I have an idea for a wallset!

[Komag]

SpoilerShow

That seemed to obvious to me. I still think it's one of those puzzles that makes you go "OH!" once you realize, but if it's so frustrating that people never figure it out, then that's no good, and I need to cut it loose.

but it was just me, one guy, and maybe others will like the subtlety of it

just placed rock through bars. I like the idea of throwing, could just do it with solid wall in front and wooden door on side, maybe

But it's not fair to the player if they can't see the plate. I'll have to see what I can come up with.

right after the teleport the player can see into the square and see the plate as the door closes, and plan for next time, no problem

[SpiderFighter]

right after the teleport the player can see into the square and see the plate as the door closes, and plan for next time, no problem

Ah, gotcha!! A very simple and elegant solution, Komag. Thanks so much.
And I made something special for you downstairs that I think you'll like!

[JohnWordsworth]

Downloaded and will play through this evening / tomorrow. Not sure if my feedback will be as awesome / thorough as Komag's - but I'll try!

[SpiderFighter]

Downloaded and will play through this evening / tomorrow. Not sure if my feedback will be as awesome / thorough as Komag's - but I'll try!

John, hang on a few hours if you would, please. I'll have a new version uploaded this afternoon with tweaks and a whole other section on the second floor. I'll post when it's up (and send you a PM to let you know).

And thank you for giving this a spin and offering your input!