Do pits play it to safe?

[Komag]

Hmm, I see what you mean...

maybe levitation could still work in some way we haven't thought of yet. Maybe something like a shortcut where if you don't have levitation there is still a long cut. Or maybe there is a place that is only possible with levitation but the loot on the other size is something only a levitation mage can make use of, so a party without levitate won't miss anything important.

[lowzei]

@Ixnatifual
I think levitation could work out pretty well if used properly in the level design. You could levitate by casting a spell or by mixing a potion, this way it would be fair for all types of parties. If you furthermore make it depend on he weight of the party, there could be nice situations where you want to go up a level, dropping (some of) your stuff before because otherwise you're too heavy, and this way sneaking more vulnerable into unknown territory, maybe a secret area, maybe enabling the entrance from the other side, etc.

I would implement it as a very limited force, just to lift you up and less as a way to float over traps and puzzles of a dungeon. It just would make looking up also more interesting. If needed you could use closing pits/platforms to define one way areas or place it in a no magic area.

Another way would be some climbing tools and certain shafts which allow you to fix your rope-ladder (which can get broken) or whatever you're using.

[Ixnatifual]

First, say we have Levitation. Now all of a sudden all pit puzzles are completely invalidated, and we must invent a new convoluted pit puzzle type that assume Levitation will work to have any pit puzzles at all.

Second, we have to put it in the wrong spell category, Spellcraft, to make it easier to obtain.

Third, since it's in Spellcraft, we're now forcing all Mages to take Spellcraft to a certain level so they can nagivate the new pit puzzles that require Levitation.

Fourth, we're now forcing all parties to bring a Mage. Although this can be somewhat alleviated by charged items that can cast Levitation.

Fifth, the above creates an entirely new problem. What if the party runs out of charges on their Levitation item when on the wrong side of a pit puzzle? They're now stuck forever.

Sixth, we have to make the Levitation item with infinite charges. Now we can scrap the spell since no one would use it when there's an item that does it better.

So we end up at the original issue again. We've just cornered ourselves into invalidating most types of pit puzzles again. So I'm thinking if Levitation of any sort is going to work, it's going to have to be severely limited. Say you want to have a pit puzzle in an area that can only be solved with clever use of Levitation. Rather than having a general Levitation ability, you could have that particular area be a magic area where the party can levitate, or have an item that gives Levitation but the player has to leave it behind when leaving that area. This way you can still make puzzles around Levitation but you avoid wrecking the rest of the game.

PS. I'm not opposed to clever pit puzzles and I'm not saying anyone sucks for wanting Levitation. It's a cool idea but as it stands I don't think it's worth the trouble (maybe someone else does) in Grimrock unless where you can use it is highly restricted.

[lowzei]

I think you're making things more complicate than they are. As i wrote already it needs proper integration but it's all doable, nothing to worry about.

[Ixnatifual]

I just don't see how, but if you have a brilliant idea feel free to share.

[Isaac]

I just don't see how, but if you have a brilliant idea feel free to share.

There could be a spell to safely descend a pit; a greater [effort] spell to ascend through a pit. there could also be some pits with a ladder in them, or even built into them; and there could be 'coiled rope' or 'rope ladder' items that allowed conventional descent for one or more levels. Imagine dropping a rope ladder at a pit and finding that it drops three or four levels; and that if you leave it tied, that would both mark the pits on each level, and allow the party to ascend or descend from each pit. Tied ropes could only be retrieved by untying them at the top; requiring that they commit the rope or expend spell energy. But there could even be a magical rope that unties itself with a secret yank.

*Marking the pits could potentially reveal curious geometry in the dungeon.

**Magical levitation could (and probably should) be a very high level spell that is noticeably taxing, and would leave the mage low on spell energy; and at a disadvantage if they were attacked as they came out of the pit.

Another thought is that the act of climbing a rope ladder would expend energy from each party member; (possibly affected by their carry weight), and burns more energy going up than down... and Ropes burn significantly more to climb than ladders. they could even risk falling if their energy drops to zero during the climb.

[lowzei]

Well, you could define levitation as a local tile based gravity inversing field spell, like -.2*g from where you jump off once you reached the appropriate height, which will make you move just to the next tile you're facing (if you walk into this direction). But as i wrote, i would prefer if it takes your weight into account and the strength of the spell and just lifts you for the tile you're standing on.

[trentjaspar]

My two cents is that my natural inclination, of course, was not to fall into pits. Duh, right?
Then the first thing I read on a "tips thread" is, "make sure you launch yourself headlong into every pit you see!!!" (paraphrased)
I was kind of disappointed. I was looking forward to trying to finish the game with no or very few pitfalls-- especially because it lists your falls in your stats page. In fact, it seems like that could be an achievement-- finish the game with zero pitfalls (or less than X falls, etc.). But to the contrary, the achievement is to fall into LOTS of pits (25)! Seems bass ackwards to me.

Oh well. Looks like I'm going to start pit-diving.

[Dr.Disaster]

My two cents is that my natural inclination, of course, was not to fall into pits. Duh, right?

In general - or to be more precise: if unprepared - you are right.

For example you can start a specific group with exactly this in mind: no pitfalls whatsoever. You can get very far this way but you will miss quite a lot plus the Grimrock dungeon can't be finished this way. It requires at least one pitfall.

[Komag]

Are you certain? If you're thinking of the fire room on level 6 then that can be done without falling in a pit. But maybe there is another spot I'm not remembering?