Do pits play it to safe?

[Darklord]

Well as much as LoG is a blast to the past they have made it more user friendly then the older games. In LoG I think perhaps to many of the pits are filled with goodies, when you see one it's more oooh goodies then oh my better be careful! There are exceptions though, some of those pits with puzzles are tricky...

I would love a challenging custom dungeon, dangerous pits and all! I really think were going to get several!

Daniel.

[Thels]

Interesting thread, and you're right.

In EoB, I even got stuck once after falling into a pit, and with only one save slot, that had meant "redo from start". Having no possible way whatsoever to escape might be a bit harsh, and not exactly what I'm looking for, the vast majority of the pits in EoB brought you to a place you could also reach the normal way, and were better off reaching the normal way than plunging yourself right into the middle. It became less in EoB2, where you were traveling up, rather than down.

In LoG, not only do the pits hold lots of goodies, the vast majority of the time the area they provide access to cannot be reached by any other means. This really encourages a "Let's jump down every hole and see what's there." style of play.

Having custom dungeons where jumping down a hole is never rewarded and often dangerous would be interesting.

[Isaac]

I think another reason why EotB pits were more hellish than LoG (or most of the CRPGs that came later) - is because, EotB and the earlier "RPG" type games were essentially emulating old school Dungeons & Dragons "dungeon crawls." (I mean if you look at some of the maps for EotB, you can easily see how they resemble the old D&D maps). I think as CRPGs advanced, and become more powerful - it began to be less about "surviving the dungeon" and a little more about the story, character advancement, little treasure secrets, etc.

You see this a bit with 'Lands of Lore' in the sense that the story was made more prominent, but the levels were still devious; (even if all the buttons were the size of dinner plates ). IMO it's a mistake to stray from the challenging map ~that's the genre, and the point of a dungeon crawler ~the story is always secondary to the levels. To change that is not an advancement IMO, it's to switch genres.

If one were to look at the extremes; a game with a hellish map and no story or much development, compared to a game with a 'Planescape' style story and Planescape style maps done FPP; (IE. simplistic and direct)... Which would be the better dungeon crawler?

[Darklord]

If one were to look at the extremes; a game with a hellish map and no story or much development, compared to a game with a 'Planescape' style story and Planescape style maps done FPP; (IE. simplistic and direct)... Which would be the better dungeon crawler?

Both depending on what you were in the mood for.

Daniel.

[Isaac]

If one were to look at the extremes; a game with a hellish map and no story or much development, compared to a game with a 'Planescape' style story and Planescape style maps done FPP; (IE. simplistic and direct)... Which would be the better dungeon crawler?

Both depending on what you were in the mood for.

Daniel.

Not which is the most enjoyable... certainly one's mood affects that perception, but the better dungeon crawler would always be the one with the better dungeon no?

[Darklord]

but the better dungeon crawler would always be the one with the better dungeon no?

Why yes, that's right, it wouldn't necessarily be the better game though.

Daniel.

[Jirodyne]

but the better dungeon crawler would always be the one with the better dungeon no?

Why yes, that's right, it wouldn't necessarily be the better game though.

Daniel.

I am not to sure. Take a look at Dark Souls, and Demon's souls. Games that are a tribute to the old school, Learn fast or your going to die a lot. Very hard game to learn, next to no story, and very small areas/maps. And yet players love the game, cause it's challenging. A game based on story is fine, but you can easily pick up a book for a good story as well. A challenging game, putting you to your limits, testing your skills, and making you a better player is more rewarding I think.

In a story driven game, getting to the end of a dungeon is mostly. "Oh wow, what's going to happen next to the main character? If the evil king is father or something?" But then when you play it again.... "Oh, I already know all this. Boooorrrring!"

In a hard challenging game tho, getting to the end of a dungeon is mostly. "Oh god that was awesome! I can't believe I was able to get to the end! I didn't think I would be able to, but now that I did I feel so elite and powerful!" And then when you play again, you can try completing it with a different party, and strategy to test and learn, and get better.

In my opinion. I would take a really hard game over a story driven game.

[DJK]

Interesting thread, and you're right.

In EoB, I even got stuck once after falling into a pit, and with only one save slot, that had meant "redo from start". Having no possible way whatsoever to escape might be a bit harsh....

Do you remember the location of this pit ? (I can pretty much draw all 12 Eye1 levels from memory and finished the game 20+ times (no joke).. but I can't recall ever encountering a pit that leads to a "jail for life" location...

[Isaac]

Interesting thread, and you're right.

In EoB, I even got stuck once after falling into a pit, and with only one save slot, that had meant "redo from start". Having no possible way whatsoever to escape might be a bit harsh....

Do you remember the location of this pit ? (I can pretty much draw all 12 Eye1 levels from memory and finished the game 20+ times (no joke).. but I can't recall ever encountering a pit that leads to a "jail for life" location...

Was it no escape, or no survivable escape? (IE. dropped into a fight.)

I cannot recall a true deathtrap except in EOB2.

[DJK]

And the only true deathtrap in Eye2 isn't a pit, it's a door with wispers warning you not to come closer... you see all kinds of loot, he warns you again and if you then still go towards the voice/loot the door closes and there is no way out anymore...