No news on fixing the GPU overheating problem?

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badhabit
Posts: 467
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 2:24 pm

Re: No news on fixing the GPU overheating problem?

Post by badhabit »

GreyFalcon wrote:@Badhabit Are you running x64 or x32 version of Windows? This plays a big roll in how the system addresses multicore use. x64 will use a multicore more efficiently but remember that LoG is only a x32 game (unless I missed something) so by nature it is single core even if a 64bit OS is multi-threading the game across multiple cores. It hits all 4 cores on my system.

As for over heating... on a GeForce GTX 460 I'm only averaging 68% load sat at 1280x1024 and vsync off, everything else maxed.

system specs:
AMD A6-3620APU
GeForce GTX 460
8Gb Ram
2Tb Sata 3 HardDrive
Windows 7 Pro x64 uEFI
@GreyFalcon: I'm running the 32 bit version. Thanks for the GPU load info on your system, drop this load significantly for lowest settings? How your system behaves with multiple light sources?

Beside, the GTX 460 seems part of GeForce 400 Series, debuted around 2010, so it's brand new and several generation ahead compared to my ATI HD 3600 from 2007. ;)
HotGPU
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:03 pm

Re: No news on fixing the GPU overheating problem?

Post by HotGPU »

petri wrote:
HotGPU wrote:Which I have done now and playing the game again now the temperature is up over 90 degrees
How did you verify that it's your GPU (not CPU) that's getting hot? There's a lot of Lua code running in LoG which could be stressing low end CPUs a lot... what are your system specs?

EDIT: What happens if you set max frame rate to 10, do you still get heating? And can you verify that frame rate limited is working, i.e. the frame rate should get choppy if you lower it too much?

The computer that most experiences the problem that I am mainly talking about is this machine:

Asus G73jh Gaming Laptop
Windows 7 - 64 BIt
Intel Core i7 (Quad core hyper threaded) - 1.6ghz (can automatically clock up to 3.0ghz but currently capped at 2.6ghz)
16 GB RAM
ATI Radeon 5870 1GB RAM
ATI Catalyst 12.1a drivers (But I did try with older ones also and same problem)

I am using GPU-Z to read the temperature relative to what it reaches on other games. I will try setting the frame rate to 10 tonight - at the moment I have tried 60 fps.
badhabit
Posts: 467
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 2:24 pm

Re: No news on fixing the GPU overheating problem?

Post by badhabit »

HotGPU wrote:
petri wrote:
HotGPU wrote:Which I have done now and playing the game again now the temperature is up over 90 degrees
How did you verify that it's your GPU (not CPU) that's getting hot? There's a lot of Lua code running in LoG which could be stressing low end CPUs a lot... what are your system specs?

EDIT: What happens if you set max frame rate to 10, do you still get heating? And can you verify that frame rate limited is working, i.e. the frame rate should get choppy if you lower it too much?

The computer that most experiences the problem that I am mainly talking about is this machine:

Asus G73jh Gaming Laptop
Windows 7 - 64 BIt
Intel Core i7 (Quad core hyper threaded) - 1.6ghz (can automatically clock up to 3.0ghz but currently capped at 2.6ghz)
16 GB RAM
ATI Radeon 5870 1GB RAM
ATI Catalyst 12.1a drivers (But I did try with older ones also and same problem)

I am using GPU-Z to read the temperature relative to what it reaches on other games. I will try setting the frame rate to 10 tonight - at the moment I have tried 60 fps.
Here another idea which should help but involves more "hacking", so this is on your own risk: underclocking of your GPU until you reach an acceptable temperature level

here some explanation (somewhat outdated but the idea stays the same) http://www.playtool.com/pages/undercloc ... wdown.html
you could try the ATItool to adapt the core frequency http://downloads.guru3d.com/ATi-Tool-0. ... d-725.html (or http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/11 ... 0.9.8.html)

Update: tested succesful the ATI Tray Tools (http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=733) and was able to achieve approx. -10°C by reducing core freq. of GPU and mem to minimum & reducing the voltage also
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Spathi
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:33 am
Location: Melbourne Australia

Re: No news on fixing the GPU overheating problem?

Post by Spathi »

I explained it in other threads, so search if you are interested.. but it is the VLIW5 / Superscalar MADDx5
LoG probably uses the fat sp for transcendentals to move the big fat walls, so most of the processor has current going through it as it needs to waste 4 sp for one big instruction.
Most 3D games do not need that. The developers (might) be able to fix it, by using more triangles/polygons to make up each wall. Problem is it might be hard to change retrospectively, (not sure I am not a game programmer).

"HotGPU", You do not have a Radeon HD 5870 you have a Mobility Radeon HD 5870
Which will have about the same amount of problems as a HD3850 or HD4870 (although it is 20% faster)

An old post of mine, lol, lol, lol
http://forums.guru3d.com/showpost.php?p ... stcount=11
Not many people "get it"

Barts has a Dual Queue and other optimizations. HD6870 is nice+pricedwell+lowpower.
GPU's 69xx and up have VLIW4 and other optimizations. HD7870 is probably nice+priced+lowerpoweragain.
Does not help with a laptop though.

EDIT: Transcendentals are needed for moving sprites and large 2D bitmaps, also AMD or Valve Corporation might help improve the petri engine. (I like the solid feel of Grimrocks engine though.) Maybe there is just some 3D graphics optimized instruction thing they did not use.
seebs
Posts: 268
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:58 pm

Re: No news on fixing the GPU overheating problem?

Post by seebs »

Huh, I had a G73JH until recently, I never had much trouble with it, but didn't try LoG on it.
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Spathi
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:33 am
Location: Melbourne Australia

Re: No news on fixing the GPU overheating problem?

Post by Spathi »

Sure it is fast enough but you would have to compare it to the NVidea card for that machine for each game to see the difference in heat/load. It only affects how much the GPU is getting used. I have explained it in enough detail, but anyway. You have 5 sp's in a set, but for any game only one will be used in the set for some game elements, but the card still needs to supply full power to them (and has 80% less shaders for each op that requires a fat sp). some games are worse than others.

Effectively for some elements in some games these GPU will be inefficient. For example, from the last page (or another thread, I forget) and that chaps comparison with "Oblivion". Oblivion was playable for me on 3850 OC. If you replace the grass with the high resolution rendered grass mod/patch, then the HDxxxx will ironically have less work to do for the grass as it uses all 5 sp's rather than the one big fat sp for the sprite.

Other examples are Age of Conan (some things are 2D), WOW (spells and smoke and stuff were 2D), Photoshop (or any 2D program).

My guess is that the LoG walls are one humungous hi-res square, rather than lots of little polygons... like most games. Just a guess.

EDIT: here...
http://www.notebookcheck.net/ATI-Mobili ... 073.0.html
Compared to the previous generation such as with the Mobility Radeon HD 4870, the HD 5870 should be about 20% faster
Also, sry it was fallout on the last page (which is oblivion engine I think)... note how he got 78% (ah, nvm I am tired today, it was 100% 78oC on HD3600 which is a pretty low end card) *deleted*. One of the reasons I found was the MADDx5 stuff, although the complexity and CPU also have a large effect in that game. (3850 Overclocked could move more pixels with transcendentals than a 4870, 4870 can do many many more texture fills)

Not all the GPU is used up doing the transcendentals, just a percentage of a percentage if you get what I mean... like if the game had to use 6% (30%) of the GPU on "sprite grass" or moving large surfaces then 24% of the GPU would be wasted, doing nothing (assuming the other 70% was doing other polygon stuff).

EDIT2: Actually it says the Mobility HD 5870 is 20% faster than the Mobility Radeon HD 4870, and I was comparing it to a full 3850/4870, so it would be even worse.
Radeon HD 3850 @ 837MHz Pixel Fill Rate: 13.4 Gigapixels/sec
Mobility Radeon HD 5870 Pixel fill rate: 11.2 Gigapixels/sec
It is slower...
and 11.2 or 13.4 is borderline with VLIW5 as the Fill Rate actually ranging somewhere between 13.4/5= 2.68 and 13.4

As someone pointed out the other solution is to use less pixels... i.e. drop the res to 720p or 768 or something
badhabit
Posts: 467
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 2:24 pm

Re: No news on fixing the GPU overheating problem?

Post by badhabit »

Spathi wrote:I explained it in other threads, so search if you are interested.. but it is the VLIW5 / Superscalar MADDx5
[snip]
Hi Spathi, thanks for the hint on the influence of the different architectural approaches of GPUs.
VLIW4 vs VLIW5 etc was new to me... read a little bit about motivations and the evolution of architectures... gave an hint on the behaviour of LoG (http://lenzfire.com/2011/10/amd-moved-f ... pus-56588/)

So did I get you right, your conclusion is that VLIW5 architecture based GPUs (ATI cards until ..?) are a suboptimal selection (performance and efficency wise) for LoG because of the excessive usage of transcendencal functions combined with a low poly count in LoG? Nvidia cards which have a focus on the more general mechanism of threadlevel parallism are generally better suited for LoG?
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Spathi
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:33 am
Location: Melbourne Australia

Re: No news on fixing the GPU overheating problem?

Post by Spathi »

Yes, lol you put it more succinctly. I used to have a 3850 and that is what I found, for some games.
Do not have it anymore so can not test it or anything, so just a guess. It could be the walls or the lighting method is moding pixels or the "low polygon count, so it's like moving large photos, thing" (or I suppose drawing what is not on the screen).
ATI cards are good at textures so it won't be that (unless the cards are low end).

Another thing that may help is triple buffering if the card is borderline (and you can keep it cool). For that download "D3DOverrider".

p.s. modern ATI desktop cards are OK, just that for some older VLIW5 cards or laptop cards 13 or 14 GPixels/sec is needed for some games. (for less heat you want even more GPixels/sec pixel fillrate so the card is not then running near 100%.)

Another game where I think VLIW5 might be a problem is "Eschalon: Book I"... and another is "Subspace/Continuum". For those it is because they are old 2Dish directX 8 moving whole screens of pixels at once with z buffers and stuff, which some newer cards (2007-2009 speeds) are not designed for.

here is a pic of each..
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/rad ... 818-2.html

The other thing that reduces the pixels to be processed is turning off AA, been mentioned, but will add it anyway as I crapped on so much. Assume people try that one anyway.
b8w2N7r6Wz0q5e
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:39 pm

Re: No news on fixing the GPU overheating problem?

Post by b8w2N7r6Wz0q5e »

HotGPU wrote:
petri wrote:
HotGPU wrote:Which I have done now and playing the game again now the temperature is up over 90 degrees
How did you verify that it's your GPU (not CPU) that's getting hot? There's a lot of Lua code running in LoG which could be stressing low end CPUs a lot... what are your system specs?

EDIT: What happens if you set max frame rate to 10, do you still get heating? And can you verify that frame rate limited is working, i.e. the frame rate should get choppy if you lower it too much?

The computer that most experiences the problem that I am mainly talking about is this machine:

Asus G73jh Gaming Laptop
Windows 7 - 64 BIt
Intel Core i7 (Quad core hyper threaded) - 1.6ghz (can automatically clock up to 3.0ghz but currently capped at 2.6ghz)
16 GB RAM
ATI Radeon 5870 1GB RAM
ATI Catalyst 12.1a drivers (But I did try with older ones also and same problem)

I am using GPU-Z to read the temperature relative to what it reaches on other games. I will try setting the frame rate to 10 tonight - at the moment I have tried 60 fps.
If you still have problems with heat, one option is to get a laptop cooler and use it while gaming.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laptop_cooler
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