What a sequel to this game would need

[Thels]

I've seen a few post about spellcasting and runes. Personally I love the rune system, even though it can cause some panic during a battle and the health bars show little of the red.
I have already suggested a spellbook where one could look up all known rune combinations. Now I came up with the possibility of a few quickspell slots. 1, 2 or 3 slots (perhaps dependent on character level or Spellcraft skill) where one can allocate a spell one uses often. So instead of clicking all the runes each time you'll want to cast yor favourite spell you could use it with one click.

It has been suggested to use the scrolls as quick-cast options. So if you put a scroll in your hand, you could right-click it to cast that specific spell. You would still need the skill requirements as normal.

It would put the scrolls to some use, when you already know all spell runes from earlier plays/on-line readings. It would still cost you a hand slot to put them in, which seems like a decent ratio. You'd still need a free hand or wand to cast any other spell.

[Doom972]

Sounds like you want a very different game. Grimrock isn't the sort of game where you travel in a big world and meet characters and progress through a story.
Grimrock is about surviving a claustrophobia inducing dungeon filled with danger and mystery.

It sounds to me like what you want is a hybrid of WItcher , Elder Scrolls and Diablo. While I sympathize with that, I have to say I don't think it would be appropriate for a sequel to this game.

[Thels]

Sounds like you want a very different game. Grimrock isn't the sort of game where you travel in a big world and meet characters and progress through a story.
Grimrock is about surviving a claustrophobia inducing dungeon filled with danger and mystery.

It sounds to me like what you want is a hybrid of WItcher , Elder Scrolls and Diablo. While I sympathize with that, I have to say I don't think it would be appropriate for a sequel to this game.

You can still have some plot and character interaction in a Dungeon Crawl.

While I agree that the OP's suggestions would stray too far towards a different game, some elements could work quite well. For example, it would be nice if you could start with one PC, and find some NPCs down in the dungeon to join up with you.

[Merethif]

If they introduce rangers, druids, clerics, bards etc I sincerely hope they mold the class into something else that the stereotypical class, and something more fitting the Northern Realms.

Actually there is a ranger class already...
Well, sort of

[owl905]

Not sure if this would be a sequel request or the new vogue - a "Grimrock Enhanced" upgrade, but ...

1. A 'final score/achievement' screen and an auto-save of the characters at game-run completion.
2. Start a new run with the option to use those built-up characters (no equipment or inventory) retaining the Toorum choice
3. Random level shuffling options on second+ game-runs on (trapdoors would have funny surprises), for levels 2 to 8
4. Make the "Skilled" attribute part of the base creation process
5. Add A warning that one or more characters is named "New Prisoner" - same option as the incomplete points distribution warning
6. Skip the exterior stuff (it will add a lot more weight to the game than any value it brings). But add textures that increase the range of interior designs - natural tunnels, caverns, crypts, lava, water, fog,and ice-pits
7. Add some kind of bonus ability/attribute to possession of Treasures (aternative, make them impossible to pick up and treat them like a one-time skill-point book)
8. Tooltip for rune selection that states the spell, sticky a selected spell so it doesn't need rebuilding every turn
9. Runeshelf should start empty and fill in as scrolls are found (a self-educating rune system)
10. Buttons in the alcoves at the start of Level 1 - dispenses one of food, ingredients, torches, rocks
11. Party death on the first eight levels should re-awaken a barely alive party at the start of Level 1

And ...
12. Custom character building - choose 6 attributes - Spellcraft, Armour, Athletics, 4 magic (as is, prereq Spellcraft); CombatCraft (replaces Staff Defence/Dodge, Assassin), Weapons - Poles, Bashers, Blades, Ranged (requires Combatcraft); Aura (alchemy plus resistance plus pack mule)

If this is for the sequel, with the work that's already polished Grimrock it should make building something the size of Inner Earth, with the same comic-book game-pace, be just around the next corner.

[Bees]

Regarding classes, the only one I can think of would be a "Survivalist" type, i.e. a ranger but without the implied magic use. Weapon skills pertain to practical tools like axes and bows, and other skills would be foraging, perception, and camouflage based. Cleric or priest works too, I guess, but I think the potion brewing system we have works well enough that I'm not sure we need a class that does the same, but through spells (though a "utility belt" slot for quick quaffing, as already suggested many times over, would still be appreciated).

For magic, I don't really care about balancing energy cost or whatever you young whippersnappers are complaining about these days. I just want more spells. Maybe one to temporarily render a door unusable, or to throw up an illusion of your party to throw off monsters. Or one to make the compass point towards a key rather than north. Oh, and I would be remiss to not mention a basic confusion spell. Utility stuff like that. But stick at least a few of them into the elemental skill trees so you still have to pick and choose.

Also, give monsters a sense of hearing, and then give the party the option of running at full speed (like we do now) and making noise, or walking silenty. (Say, how do four people walk silenty when they're manacled by 12 feet of chain and/or have hooves? I don't know, just pretend they're Nerf manacles or something...) That would give the game a measure of stealth without going overboard with Thief levels of involvement, and it would definitely add some tension.

[Ixnatifual]

This would make a game I'd enjoy, it wouldn't really be LoG any more of course. Sounds much closer to Ishar, and yeah I'd love an Ishar clone made by the AH guys!

Daniel.

Warm tears!

I hope they elect to exclude your entire party murdering each other in their sleep.

[Thels]

1. A 'final score/achievement' screen and an auto-save of the characters at game-run completion.
5. Add A warning that one or more characters is named "New Prisoner" - same option as the incomplete points distribution warning
6. Skip the exterior stuff (it will add a lot more weight to the game than any value it brings). But add textures that increase the range of interior designs - natural tunnels, caverns, crypts, lava, water, fog,and ice-pits

These are good ideas.

2. Start a new run with the option to use those built-up characters (no equipment or inventory) retaining the Toorum choice

Mages and Unarmed characters would be overpowered from the get go, and other characters would be overpowered, once they found a weapon related to their skill. You would be able to literally breeze your way through the game, and perhaps become level 15 along the way. Unless a really easy game is what you after (after already completing the game), I don't see the use.

3. Random level shuffling options on second+ game-runs on (trapdoors would have funny surprises), for levels 2 to 8

This could lead to lots of problems, especially considering the pits.

4. Make the "Skilled" attribute part of the base creation process

Do you mean that everyone would start with 3 more skillpoints? Isn't that taking an option away, instead of adding an option to the game?

7. Add some kind of bonus ability/attribute to possession of Treasures (aternative, make them impossible to pick up and treat them like a one-time skill-point book)

What's the reasoning behind this? Treasures are items of value, not items that assist you in combat.

I can see that being able to pick them up and carry them around might confuse the casual player, since they have zero use whatsoever, and experienced players would drop them immediately again due to this zero use, but taking weight/an inventory slot. It could be useful to make them disappear after picking up, like you're carrying them with you, but they don't show up/cost weight. I don't really think it's necessary, though, and it would be a problem if they would have some use in a later game, like an NPC that will trade you some items for the treasures.

8. Tooltip for rune selection that states the spell, sticky a selected spell so it doesn't need rebuilding every turn
9. Runeshelf should start empty and fill in as scrolls are found (a self-educating rune system)

Then you can't discover the spells yourself. Some spells don't even have a scroll available to them, requiring you to deduct their rune combination from other, similar spells. Besides, if rune clicking wasn't the intention, they could've just used a list of spells and forget about the runes altogether.

What could possibly be nice is if you could place a scroll in your hand to quick-cast that specific spell without having to click the runes. It wouldn't actually provide any bonuses over clicking an empty hand and clicking the runes, except that it's a little quicker. And it's a hand in which you can't hold an orb/staff/torch/throwing weapon, and cannot be used to cast other spells until you remove the scroll. You would still need the required skill level to pull it off.

10. Buttons in the alcoves at the start of Level 1 - dispenses one of food, ingredients, torches, rocks

There are a zillion Torches in the game. Why do you need more? The rest is supposed to only be available in a limited quantity. If you aim at the casual player, they will think they need this and have weight problems starting at level 1. Not really a good thing.

11. Party death on the first eight levels should re-awaken a barely alive party at the start of Level 1

This could be done, but wouldn't it quickly get annoying? Most players would load if they died, or be so annoyed that they would rather close the game. Those that do think "Sure, let's start over with a different party." probably want to customize it a little different.

12. Custom character building - choose 6 attributes - Spellcraft, Armour, Athletics, 4 magic (as is, prereq Spellcraft); CombatCraft (replaces Staff Defence/Dodge, Assassin), Weapons - Poles, Bashers, Blades, Ranged (requires Combatcraft); Aura (alchemy plus resistance plus pack mule)

Making Alchemy require a skill would either:
- Force players to spec into an otherwise useless skill, if Alchemy was required to beat the game, or
- Make all Alchemy ingredients and all recipe scrolls useless if none of your characters took the skill.

Also, what's the point of Skills requiring other skills? With 6 skill slots and probably only 2 skills you're going to put points in, requiring to choose another skill as well has practically zero impact.

Also, it would mean my mages could just walk around in Heavy Armor without too much problems...

[Ixnatifual]

1)Outside locations with beautiful environments like in The Witcher 2.
- a) This means also a bit larger environments and with changing weather conditions(like raining, cloudy sky, sun, maybe even snowing in some locations).
- b) Currently max dungeon width is around 10 squares, considering outside environments should have higher visibility conditions(at least in bright sunny day), you could go to 12-14 squares maintaining FOV.
- c) Maybe slightly different FOV or camera angle for the bigger outside environments.
- d) Cities with Taverns for Hiring already prebuilt characters (like in the Ishar Trilogy) possibility to buy stuff or trade stuff, maybe selling the treasures found in this chapter to make a bit of money to start in the sequel.
- e)Possiblity to dismiss, assassinate a party member like in Ishar.

I agree outside environments with overhead sky would be a very welcome addition. It can get a little monotonous with the same claustrophobic atmosphere all the time. Ishar had some very cool and beautiful open environments, but I think Grimrock's combat system with all the grid dancing wouldn't work well in such an open environment. Instead they could perhaps go with outdoor environments in the style of Lands of Lore: Throne of Chaos. These were pretty much the same as dungeons except the "walls" could be a mass of trees or rocks. And of course no pressure plates or doors. They still felt like outside and were a nice change of atmosphere. The open environments could work, but I think it would require some drastic changes to the combat system, which may not be desirable.

2)Random events/enemies (not always but maybe in the outskirts) and loot, with magical items(that must be identified by a Magician Spell), random passing caravans near cities(or in the outskirt) for trading.
- a)Trading system, with gems, gold, silver coins.
- b)Quests scripted and partially random(Get me these ingredients Example XY wolves/other animal or beast fur/eyes/teeth and I'll give you ring/amulet/weapon/tool/potion/scroll).

The addition of currency and shops would be excellent. One thing I love in RPGs is acquiring wealth so I can buy some of the cool stuff the stores have available. Going hand in hand with the addition of outdoor environments, towns (houses in outdoor environs or even city tilesets) would be great and IMO a natural expansion of the game world. I feel it's debatable whether random loot and events are desirable or not. But to be blunt, I think it's way less interesting than your other suggestions. If I wanted a sequel, it wouldn't be because there was now some random loot to be had, but it certainly would be for outdoor environments and towns.

3)Quickslots for potions (which currently are very tough to use, and for spells at least not needing to reselect all the runes to cast same spell) - These are a must
- a) The numbers in the keyboard should be used for quick slots not for Characters Inventories (For those F1-F4 should be better) at least give us 2 quickslots for Energy and Health like in Diablo)
- b) More hotkeys

I'm not a big fan of having the screen cluttered too much with UI elements for displaying potions hotkeys etc., but I wouldn't be opposed to at least hotkeying the primary hand. In Lands of Lore: Throne of Chaos I recall it was F1-F4, but 1-4 might be better for that, as they're closer to the movement keys. Inventory could be moved to the F-buttons. Not sure about quick slots for spells. I think it's a difficult task to come up with a good spell casting system for this sort of game where there's lots of spells and potentially more than one spellcaster.

4)More Classes, like druids(beast self-transformation...Bear, and low level enemy transformation), clerics(turn undead...)...

First I'd like them to focus on expanding/improving the current skill system and perhaps rebalancing them a bit. But new classes would be welcome.

I think your suggestions are a very natural and good way of expanding the game in a possible sequel. And many of them coincide exactly with what I'd like to see in a sequel (that's probably why I think they're so good!) And I really hope Almost Human have read your post!

[owl905]

@Thels re:
2. There's nothing that says you can't start over from scratch. The upgrade allows playing stronger familiar characters for speed runs. All the way to the mano a mano with Ogres.
3. It's right in the suggestion - traps continue to drop where they do in the basic linear levels. The only shuffle are the exit stairwells.
4. It takes nothing away - the value of making one of the two choices Skilled is already pretty basic. That actually reduces the selection variety.
7. As you note, treasures are basically useless. Give treasures a use better than a ding-sound and player weight-penalty. (As for 'experience players would drop them immediately' ... tell that to players who threw the Bone Necklace away.) In the game, uncertainty causes too much 'stuff' to be carried too long.
8/9. You can discover all the spells you want once the runes are displayed. In fact, it gets easier to explore and discover with incremental display and the tooltip showing success. The rune shelf is better than a list for game-fun. The idea of scroll in hand for quick-cast is good. I like it better than the 'sticky' runes. How do you clone scrolls?
10. The 'zillion' torches were used and/or dropped on the way down. Revived players may want or need some light. The essence is a back-door valve to allow players the option of risk&revive play.
11. No, back2square1 doesn't get annoying. There's always the option to load a savegame, that's a mute point. The deal with going back to the start has been a good idea in lots of RPGs over the years. It's actually a bit surprising that the backdoor outlet isn't part of LoG. Starting over and save-load is losing progress. Reviving at square 1 is a good option - especially if you forgot to save after beating a timed puzzle.
12. (re: useless objects without Aura skill) So what? The skulls are useless if you don't have a Mino. From an earlier thread, the ingredients would still have value as food. The loss is in the potions - and the game isn't dependent on them. The foundation skills is a marker encouraging either a combat character or a magic orientation. But there's nothing wrong with armored magicians; Battle Mages are excellent solo characters in more than a few RPGs - but in a six-skill set, using up combatcraft/oneweapon and spellcraft/onemagic really pinches the other two.