2x2 strafing undermines character building [edited]

[Isaac]

They never get a hit in doing the 2x2 thing, which was the point of the thread.

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Ogre in 1, stand in 4, wait, yawn, when they move to 2 or 3 hit them x times and move once, yawn, repeat.
..but you all know this, pretending not to is just as sad.

Have you seen what we've been mentioning?

** And there is nothing wrong with the design; if the player finds that they are in a room that allows that tactic, then they should use it or take needless damage.
(But it's not always an option either.)

[Spathi]

He said "most monsters".

Then you pick one he did not mean, and on top of that pretend you do not know how that monster attacks.

I was just pointing out that you can still use a 2x2 dance on that monster and never ever get hit.

I am not sure what you are talking about, but in a room with an Ogre you can always avoid being hit even if there are other creatures with it as those rooms are all large or in a network of corridors. If you were placed in a situation with an Ogre where you could not move you would just die, so they don't do it.

[oodyboo]

If you were placed in a situation with an Ogre where you could not move you would just die, so they don't do it.

Yup, that's the whole point. Forcing you to take damage will just make you need to rest more, or save/load scum until the end of time.... weeeeeeee

[Spathi]

Which was the point of this thread, ideas for making both situations less tiresome, but instead a few people post the same nay saying junk over and over.

There are plenty of suggestions in the thread.

[zuffazombie]

Let' see. I've played EoB1-3, DM, Bloodwych, Black Crypt, Knightmare... am on my third Grimrock playthrough, something which I can't remember doing with any other game so quickly. Dungeon crawlers are my favourite genre and I still think it's lame easy strafing overrides your character builds completely.

Bloodwych was an awesome game!!! was never able to clear it though got stuck in the same place twice

[Isaac]

Which was the point of this thread, ideas for making both situations less tiresome, but instead a few people post the same nay saying junk over and over.

There are plenty of suggestions in the thread.

But they don't need to make it 'less tiresome', they made it just fine. That locked room with the 7 or so plant enemies all moving around in it is (supposed to be) only possible to survive though careful sidestep and damage ~that's the point, and that's the challenge, and that's what makes it fun.

Understand the psychology of it... you can see the seeming simplicity of it; you can see that if you could only just side step to the right square at the right time then you could beat them ~but it does not reliably work out like that, or stay so predictable... especially when there is more than one in the room; especially again when the room is trapped (and some traps are simply an innocuous alcove that pins you if you stumble into it back pedaling and they stand in front... then you actually do have to bludgeon your way out, and its exciting if you manage to kill the one blocking you and step out of the alcove before the next one steps in to pin you again). The combat is just a variation on the button/switch puzzles; and it's addictive for some of the same reasons.

[dnk]

But they don't need to make it 'less tiresome', they made it just fine. That locked room with the 7 or so plant enemies all moving around in it is (supposed to be) only possible to survive though careful sidestep and damage ~that's the point, and that's the challenge, and that's what makes it fun.

they made the game just fine in lot of aspects and i enjoyed the game, but the fights could really be less tiresome and in my opinion it's quite good thing to discuss about it in a constructive manner. that locked room with plant enemies was one of the interesting combats for sure, or the one in "the shrine" (hydras + gorgoroths) was interesting also and many other combats too, but such combats are a minority in the game. The rest / the common combats (for sure >50% of combats in the game. probably much more than 50%) were not like that, and it would be a good thing, to improve the system in some way, that even those would be interesting (i don't think that it's possible to have all of the combats in such special situations. closed in a room with enemies or trapped by hydras and such ideas are very cool thing, but it would be great, to have even the most basic combats more interesting and challenging...

[Whisper]

26 pages and this issue was not yet adressed by developers.


We are not asking to make game harder (casuals, please dont worry), we are asking for option - for those who like it - to be added to game that limits 2x2 dancing which currently "answer to everything" and basicly i-win tactic in combat.

[Thels]

we are asking for option - for those who like it - to be added to game that limits 2x2 dancing which currently "answer to everything" and basicly i-win tactic in combat.

And what would that option do, then? Not allow you to move? It would require a total revamp of monster stats, and make for an even staller game, as all you do is launch your attacks.

Sure, I agree that being able to 2x2 a single monster is pretty dull. It gets exciting when there's multiple monsters, and also somewhat when there's no 2x2 space to maneuver in, or when the monster has special attacks.

So yeah, in following dungeons, I would like to see the 2x2 with a single monster with no outside factors to worry about to the bare minimum, and a focus on combat in either tricky hallways, or against multiple monsters. For example, if Wardens show up again, let them be aggro'ed in packs of two instead of allowing us to pick them off one by one.

Still, that's pretty hard to apply to an existing dungeon, and a huge undertaking to change the existing dungeon around. Not something they should invest their time around post-release, especially after a lot of people that will play the game have already completed it.

[Kwibus]

26 pages and this issue was not yet adressed by developers.


We are not asking to make game harder (casuals, please dont worry), we are asking for option - for those who like it - to be added to game that limits 2x2 dancing which currently "answer to everything" and basicly i-win tactic in combat.

There is nothing wrong with the 2x2 dancing. It's the current game that's simply too easy for some of us including me.
Imo the difference between normal and hard isn't that big? I first played it at normal and I'm now playing it at hard(on lvl9) and I have no clue what changed. It's still easy as hell.
With the exception of a few places.

SpoilerShow

Fighter's challenge and the tele that ports you into the room full with herders. The last imo being the most interesting one as it's actually possible to try and dodge and strafe away, allthough nearly impossible. The fighters challenge you will lose your non-figher classes anyways since you can't go anywhere.

These places and specifically the 2nd one should happen a lot more imo. Not directly in the same way, but it's possible to build a lvl that brings a lot more challenging fights than the current game has. Also hard difficulty should have a lot more mobs or the same mobs, just tougher and most of all.... faster.

The current system is fine it's just that the current devs underestimated the skill of some of their buyers I think. Upcoming mods will bring plenty of challenge for the tougher players among us.