Not true. Character builds still have a lot of influence. I found combat a lot easier with my second party than my first, because I built my characters differently. I also didn't need to strafe nearly as much because of it.1varangian wrote:I still think it's lame easy strafing overrides your character builds completely.
Standing toe-to-toe with enemies in Grimrock is tougher than it is against most enemies in DM, and the only time you ever really needed to strafe in the EoB games was against the beholders and Dran in EoB II - I have fond memories of being trapped in a corner by a death knight at full health in DM and somehow fighting my way out - so I don't think it makes the game "lame easy" if anything Grimrock is harder because your characters can't take much punishment. "Character builds" just aren't that much of a feature of these games IMO, they weren't really important in DM except that you needed to level to get your mana and health up and practice with your weapons/spells, you could take any character and train them up - training them differently didn't really change the way you had to fight - and when you faced enemies with powerful attacks you always had to hit and run. Remember the dragon? The stone golems? How many of the purple worms could you face at once without backing off? EoB was different because the combat was based on D&D, although it wasn't turn based, it was based on a turn based system and standing opposite your opponent and exchanging blows 1-for-1 was a viable tactic most of the time. But Grimrock is Grimrock and I don't think it's a concern that being good with the controls is more important than being good at arithmetic.1varangian wrote: Let' see. I've played EoB1-3, DM, Bloodwych, Black Crypt, Knightmare... am on my third Grimrock playthrough, something which I can't remember doing with any other game so quickly. Dungeon crawlers are my favourite genre and I still think it's lame easy strafing overrides your character builds completely.
1) discussing this way isn't really constructive. you don't know me at all. i've finished the LoG completely, now playing it 2nd time already. also played Dungeon Master & Chaos Strikes Back (on atari st) when I was 7 years old... never played WoW or any new rpgsGoffmog wrote:Of course they haven't! They've played the first 2 levels or so and found it a new type of gameplay they don't quite understand, and have come online to have a righteous moan about why it's all wrong without so much as seeing how it's developed throughout the game. You have to remember the background they're coming from, combat gameplay in modern RPGs is incredibly repetitive, the only thing that varies from fight to fight is the stats involved and combat "tactics" boils down to how you spend your levelling up points and what gear you choose. If you've played one battle in WoW or Dragon Age, you've played them all.BlueLegion wrote:The way I see it is that it's a failsafe. Even though every monster past the lvl 1 snails can destroy your party brutally if you stand toe-to-toe with it, every battle is supposed to be winnable. There are several ways to do it, this tactic just being the safest one you can always fall back to. Well, not always. Sometimes you will only get narrow corridors. Sometimes the monster will be faster than you or be able to attack sideways or to any side. How people can claim that every combat is based on this is ludicrous. Have they played past level 5 at all?dnk wrote:i believe it's not only him, because that tactic is not cheating. it's not against rules. and it's the best tactic.
and "only"oodyboo wrote:Not true. Character builds still have a lot of influence. I found combat a lot easier with my second party than my first, because I built my characters differently. I also didn't need to strafe nearly as much because of it.1varangian wrote:I still think it's lame easy strafing overrides your character builds completely.
Absolute statements like this only showcase an inability to understand nuance and complexity.
Most statements that use words like "all" "never" "every" end up being false.
As for straw man, did you have any response to my anecdote about how my different party builds impacted game play or just a nit-pick on that one word?strafing overrides your character builds completely
I cannot agree to that. I love the game mechanics and the fact that I cannot play a perfect game (never getting hit while strafing). I do not, and never have approached a dungeon crawler as any sort of simulation; and always look upon them as a framework dressed up in whatever fiction the developers chose. There is nothing wrong with the game IMO ~this includes the combat; (and additionally would include it even if I did not like the combat, because it's very in keeping and indicative of the genre ~this is what dungeon crawlers are). "Fixing" them into something else entirely is a bad move IMO. Other games are free to use their own systems as ever they please. LoG just happens to be a wonderful example of a dungeon crawler IMO.1varangian wrote:This thread really is getting repetitive and dull.
Can we all just agree that square dancing around a lone HP inflated enemy for minutes at a time and never being attacked is not the epitome of fun and exciting combat? And neither is suddenly getting obliterated in a matter of seconds if two of the same monsters manage to corner you. The right balance is obviously somewhere in between.
