[Spoilers] Last level not fun.

Talk about anything Legend of Grimrock 1 related here.
Kurn
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Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:47 pm

Re: [Spoilers] Last level not fun.

Post by Kurn »

Eleas wrote:
Schnittertm wrote:Apparently the Goromorgs where the creators of the dungeon (why else have so many statues of your race on display) or at least so it seems to me and they were able to create the ultimate weapon to stun the cube. They also created those golems with 2 flails, that are actually pretty speedy and very massive, massive enough to very likely stop the cube from using his rolling mode of locomotion. Why then would they need to employ a game of chance to find a group of adventurerers to get strong enough to get down to the Cube and destroy it? Why were they not able to do it themselves? It seems they do have the magic, technology, power and numbers (that they can spread around the Cube) to defeat him, yet they chose not to, but they also give their lives to try and stop your group. A very peculiar mode of operation to say the least.
Maybe this explanation is a bit contrived, but I get the sense the Goromorg aren't exactly at the apex of their power anymore. Whether that is because of stagnation or the whispers of some strange clockwork soul in their dreams is anyone's guess. If this had been a role playing campaign and I the gamemaster, I'd probably depict the Goromorg of Grimrock as pitiful and half-mad creatures mindlessly defending and restocking the dungeon because that's what they've always done.

As for why the Undying One couldn't be killed back then, my impression (from reading the Tomb of the Designers note) was that the Goromorg were keeping it prisoner until the passage of time had weakened it sufficiently for the weapon to work.

I assume the Undying One is not actually the Mechanical Cube itself, but rather a more powerful entity imprisoned inside it. I do not think it was lying when it said that it could create a portal out of the dungeon when repaired.
The initial purpose of the dungeon would be a ritual combat trial culminating in ability to pay reverence at the Goromorg Temple Inner Sanctum. The amount of Gladiator Statues in the Dungeon fits this rather well.
Meanwhile the Undying One is trapped below to supply power to the dungeons mechanisms, summon monsters and operate the portal from the temple to the outside.
That way only the worthy would be able to enter the Temple of Goromorg, whoever he is. Maybe the Undying One himself or some other Old God like creature. The priests are likely human but have been changed as a blessing of Goromorg.

No Hero was ever supposed to enter the Levels below The Tomb. Those are just the machine room running the entire show.
However the enslaved Undying One went mad over time and had to be partially disabled to keep the operation safe. There is a fail-safe weapon to presumably kill it but using it is a risk as it might not be weak enough yet.
In fact I imagine the entire mountain like a shutdown nuclear plant that requires years or decades of active cooling before it can be safely dismantled.

The reason the Goromorg Priests don't want us to destroy the Undying Ones Prison (the Cube) is that it is not safe yet and would in fact release the Being itself into the Universe. Which is exactly what happens in the final sequence.
Their Civilization might have perished long ago, but they still have a duty to all of creation to keep that thing locked up.

The Undying One on the other hand is mad, but not stupid. He guides the party towards his prison under false pretenses as he wants them to set him free. The only way to achieve this however is to have them break the cube and that is why he must take the risk of actually killing them in order to force them into using the fail-safe gun.
So we play into his hands even as we kill him or rather destroy his prison.
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luthur1964
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Re: [Spoilers] Last level not fun.

Post by luthur1964 »

Kurn,

I loved your rationale.
That was awesome, and I totally agree. Thanks for making me enjoy this even more.
:idea:
Red Wyrm
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Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:46 pm

Re: [Spoilers] Last level not fun.

Post by Red Wyrm »

Next on Kurns list, "Legend of Grimrock: The Novelization". That was an entertaining read. And completely plausible. So whether or not it is what the devs had in mind, it would certainly be a worthwhile premise for a sequel.
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Saice
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Location: Level 14 Mount Grimrock

Re: [Spoilers] Last level not fun.

Post by Saice »

I agree is Kurn's assessment it is vary much in line with my own ideas that I have pieced together playing the game.

I think there is a bit more to things also.

Like the floors. I thing the bottom floors the ones of metal and gears were built before grimrock was grimrock. Either the hay days of the Goromorg's kingdoms or predating even them and they just took over the ruins. the next levels of smooth cut stone is from the Goromorgians and I am pretty sure Kurn's view about some sort of holy place/ritual of testing is the focus of these levels. Notice how in is mostly these levels of smooth stone that we have all the religious and gladiator related stuff. The top level of cobblestone and moss is form the fall of the Goromorgains when their kingdom was dying and the ones hold up in Grimrock wanted to fortify the place should anyone come knocking. But Ages and ages of preforming their duties made them keep to the idea of a test. The one of the notes from Toorum says he can hear them and they know his is not on there side clearly showing the Goromorgs speak common human languages and might be checking people that show up. Testing them like they have done with there own kind for so long. Old habits and rituals are hard to give up on after all.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
My end game stats LoG 1st play through
Ashtray
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Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:48 pm

Re: [Spoilers] Last level not fun.

Post by Ashtray »

Last 2 levels are lot's like Dungeon Masters last 2 levels.

both have (will spoil both DM and LoG):
SpoilerShow
- respawing fireball throwing enemies
- main boss is in second to last level
- main boss level is quite empty and contains holes you can drop to last level, althought DM also had stairs
- you can't kill main boss enemy
- you have to restore tool to beat main enemy from "locked level", in DM it was somewhere around level 7 thought and you gathered keys to open it.

One MAJOR thing missing from LoG is "ultimate normally killable boss monster at last level", I mean DM had dragon... where is Grimrocks equivalent monster ? :(
lowzei
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Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:00 pm

Re: [Spoilers] Last level not fun.

Post by lowzei »

Actually the last two levels weren't fun compared to how great the rest of the game was. I didn't like the textures, the level design, it was performing worse than the levels above, the gameplay wasn't good, such things.

But the golems were great and they spared us the stereotypical lava level at the end but i disliked that turning from pure magic to some mechanical simple device should have been the climax. Getting into some nice wizard's private area, or something more innovative, would have worked out better for me. It felt a little bit rushed if you compare it to how nicely the rest of the dungeon was designed.
MASKOAA
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Re: [Spoilers] Last level not fun.

Post by MASKOAA »

lowzei i don't believe it is just a simple mechanical device. They called it the Undying One, theres something trapped inside of it hence the red eye after you beat the game....probly set the damn thing free.
lowzei
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:00 pm

Re: [Spoilers] Last level not fun.

Post by lowzei »

Yep but it doesn't change the feeling i got from it as finally, if there was a soul bound to it or not, i was fighting against a cube. It was more fun fighting against the golems and to appreaciate how great they were done.

The Mage in the final battle in the first DLC for Dragon Age II, he was a great and well done as a final opponent.
Galnospoke
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Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:16 pm

Re: [Spoilers] Last level not fun.

Post by Galnospoke »

Red Eye = HAL9000?

Ending levels, and ending are boring - someone create it very fast, looking on clock and calendar.
M.M
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Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:12 pm

Re: [Spoilers] Last level not fun.

Post by M.M »

I agree, that last level is a huge letdown compared to how great rest of game is.

Not only a final boss is dumb ( a mechanical cube of doom? WTF?!), and not up to promises from the rest of the game (crimes forgoten, but never forgiven, order of Fire guarding the undying one etc.) but also the last fight i a frustrating labour. I just rage quited (i must cool down), after once again i was crushed, beacuse some idiotic bug has blocked me, in spite it clearly isn't anything a particulary desperate minotaur wouldn't push away.

I admire devs for perfectly weighted difficulty - game is neither too easy nor too difficult. However this does not apply to last level. The final monster is poor,the battle is frustrating ( monsters definetally should not respawn) make no sense (why those fire guardians attack me?), and the ending is not epic enough ( i wached it on Youtube - to be honest cube was so dissapointing, i no longer wanted to avoid spoilers)

Well it lookd harsh.
Cube is a nice idea itself but for a mid-game mini boss, not for the Graet Undying Tne, the One the dungueon has been build for.

EDIT
Having cooled down and beated the cube i must say its not that bad. LoG is still an excellent game even if last level is not as polished as the rest of it. I really regret there was no music in the end ( only for credits).
I hope LoG 2 will be closer to mainstream games in terms of story and... lengh. I really want more and will definetaly go for another playthorugh.
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