More tactical combat.

[Lmaoboat]

In addition to just adding more tactical ways to defeat enemies, enemies themselves could also have active ways of being more dangerous. There could be enemies that have abilities that discourage or punish strafing, but are fairly weak in head-to-head combat. Or have one similar to the one that has a random weak side to one that will attack on 3 sides, and you have to maneuver to the safe one.

[\/4n!ll4 ][c3]

not saying that any of these ideas are bad, but combat is not the core mechanic of this game, or this type of game. the puzzle solving is.

implementing these suggestions in a way that would not just completely annihilate players would mean everything about the game outside of the puzzles would have to be reworked, which would then make it a completely different game.

[Lmaoboat]

not saying that any of these ideas are bad, but combat is not the core mechanic of this game, or this type of game. the puzzle solving is.

implementing these suggestions in a way that would not just completely annihilate players would mean everything about the game outside of the puzzles would have to be reworked, which would then make it a completely different game.

Just because it's not the main part doesn't mean it couldn't stand to use some improvement. And I made most of the ideas so that they would fit under the current strafing based combat while making it more dynamic.

[Megami]

not saying that any of these ideas are bad, but combat is not the core mechanic of this game, or this type of game. the puzzle solving is.

implementing these suggestions in a way that would not just completely annihilate players would mean everything about the game outside of the puzzles would have to be reworked, which would then make it a completely different game.

Combat is the core mechanic of this game. Puzzles are just a level feature. I bet when the editor is out there will be many dungeons with no or very little puzzle tasks involved.

[Jack Dandy]

To be fair, puzzles+exploration were the game's focus from the start. And so they were for it's predecessors.

[chautygorcy]

I particularly like the blocking idea, clicking on the shield - that would be sweet

[Lowlightt]

Added this here as this seemed a better place to discuss it.

And primarily it's too easy because all the non-spell attacks are simple instant clicks so only mages take any player focus with the potential of interrupting the player's strafing rhythm. Strafing gets much tougher when you have something else to focus on, and that's why I would personally try to make the attack system more engaging.

This is key right here. The goal to make combat more fun is to distract the player more while circle strafing because lets face it, its as intended. One way I see it is to make warrior/rogue characters more engaging, as mages can already be distracting so much so many people only cast one spell they pre prepared before the fight.


Different Ideas include


Special Attacks instead of making them auto instead make them player skill based. Which goes into my other idea



Instead of having characters attack on click instead give characters a two click attack. The first click prepares an attack with the equipped weapon or PA (prepare attack) and the second click releases it or AR(attack release). Give the characters a generic power meter, I would prefer a circle of course but a straight bar works just as well. Each bar will have a moving sweet zone that you need to time the AR to hit. Circles imo would fit overtop the character portraits better. Points into skills will of course either decrease the speed of the attack bar or increase the size of the sweet zone. Special attacks from weapons will only proc on sweet zone hits.


With this idea you move special attacks to something the player has control over (ie direct player involvement) plus you make attacking something that the player needs to concentration on which in turn will add additional distraction to the game. Make it an additional mode and call it "Pro Mode"


So dex as a core stat will make attack bars (or circles) easier to use, while str will increase the dmg of these attacks.

Now it could be implemented with or with out die rolls for to hit, thus a sweet spot is always a hit or it could take into count the enemies evasion values and even a sweet spot hit could still miss or some form of that.

PowerMeter
{__________________________________________________________________________}



Example
Outside of sweetspot hit (0% - 40% of to hit)
Close to sweetspot (70% - 80% of to hit)
Sweet Spot (90% - 100% of to hit)
Direct center on sweetspot (110% of to hit)

With the above example the game would still calculate hits to the enemy in the normal way its done now, but players would have control on how much of a to hit bonus they get on there attacks.




Things to discus about this idea



1. Attack speed
Normally you would want as skill goes up attack speed to increase but the idea that skill goes up its makes it easier to use the Power Meter could go against that?

Possible solutions to this that I can think include that the speed of the Power Meter never changes but the size of the sweetzone does increase. This could allow for the faster combat people enjoy with out much change in the current skill trees regarding attack speed.

Another solution is that at lower skill levels the Power Meter instead of being fast is just inconsistent. Sometimes you get a slow attack other times you get a fast attack ext. Meaning you can't have consistent timing on the attack bar, vs at higher skill levels the attack bar becomes eventually perfectly consistent and at a fast speed (coupled with the increased sweet spot zone to make your character better able to handle faster attack speeds, (hopefully with the idea that you trained your hand eye coordination to an appropriate level with playing up this point).

2. Power Meter
How should the power meter be displayed to the player in the ui for both comfort, utility and ease of use at the same time not distracting the player?

This is of course all opinion and taste really. I myself would prefer it as a circle that appears over the character portrait that is using it.


3. Goal
Will this provide engaging combat with out changing the games core combat?

I think it will but we should discuss if this would be in the spirit of the game itself. I think it might be a neat addition as a game option mode maybe as like I earlier called it "Pro mode" or maybe "Combat Pro Mode" or such.


4. Distraction
Do you think this is adequate distraction to the player to undermine both there dancing technique (2x2) and there memory (back tracking the dungeon while attacking)

I feel it will be more so to the point that it might be to much for some players (hence why I think it should be a game option)



So as with everything discuss the idea.

[Sabatasso]

Is it really your idea of fun, to aim for a sweet spot all day long?
The idea itself isn't that bad in theory, but in practice it would make the game godawful in my opinion.

[moogie]

I've always enjoyed tactical combat wether it was Might and magic games on master of magic anything that was turn base was my friend.

In this game however I think that real time combat is the only way to go. Unless you want to make a game like shinning in the darkness. I think LOG did the right thing however.

[Lowlightt]

Is it really your idea of fun, to aim for a sweet spot all day long?
The idea itself isn't that bad in theory, but in practice it would make the game godawful in my opinion.

Numerous games use that in there combat to add twitch to them. I personally think it would make combat more engaging if theres more for you to have to worry about then click, click all characters weapons, repeat as they light up.