hmm, graph paper or automap...

[Darklord]

i like to believe any character that is going into a dungeon is smart enough to bring paper along so they dont get lost.

Er you do know these guys were prisoners thrown into the prison with nothing? Where do you think they hid this paper?!

MAKE 3D PAPER MODELS OF THE DUNGEONS BECAUSE I AM HARDCORE!!!

Picture please!

Incidentally your name well and truly screws up quoting!

Daniel.

[\/4n!ll4 ][c3]

Toorum had plenty of paper. where did it come from?

reduce, reuse, recycle, i say.

[BlueLegion]

Toorum had plenty of paper. where did it come from?

he had a severe illness and regularly shed parts of his skin =P

But as for mapping myself, I just ain't feeling it, I don't like spending a minute to draw each damn corridor. Even in Etrian Odyssey (a DS first person dungeon crawler where drawing your own maps is a core mechanic) it starts to get a tad annoying.

[jfunk]

Toorum had plenty of paper. where did it come from?

reduce, reuse, recycle, i say.

You know the game is not supposed to be "work" right? Correlating it to such is a broken analogy and has nothing to do with why some of us choose to map manually. By that same logic, you might as well just watch Youtube videos of all the cut scenes and puzzle solutions and be done with it right? Why waste all that time actually playing it or solving those puzzles when you could save so much time by just seeing the results? No need to reinvent the wheel, right?

[\/4n!ll4 ][c3]

Toorum had plenty of paper. where did it come from?

reduce, reuse, recycle, i say.

You know the game is not supposed to be "work" right? Correlating it to such is a broken analogy and has nothing to do with why some of us choose to map manually. By that same logic, you might as well just watch Youtube videos of all the cut scenes and puzzle solutions and be done with it right? Why waste all that time actually playing it or solving those puzzles when you could save so much time by just seeing the results? No need to reinvent the wheel, right?

form better sentences and stop being bitter that i choose to make use of technology when you choose to hold on to nostalgia.

i never said graphing by hand was wrong, nor did i say it is a bad thing. i just said i dont do it because it is an unnecessary amount of work or involvement. also, what you quoted was a sarcastic squabble between myself and darklord, that had a blatantly obvious answer to his rhetorical question. do not get upset because you did not catch this.

the fact is, i said i dont hand draw maps because i said i like to assume my RPG characters are smart enough to bring paper along with them for this very reason, hence automapping is in the game. darklord said they were tossed in as prisoners, i provided logic based on in-game examples to support my point of view.

lastly, since i seemed to offend your sensibilities so drastically because you cannot accept that i have no desired to hand draw something when the game provides the tools to do it for me (even though i never once said anything bad about those who choose to hand draw, only that i have no desire to do it, but hey, whatever), it is you who is providing the broken analogy by saying i should just watch the youtube videos of the cutscenes, becuase watching 3 minutes of a 15+ hour game totally gives me the experience i am looking for that i get by PLAYING the game.

but i mean, what do i know.~

[King Semos]

I've played Old School mod, but never made a map. It's also an option if you feel like making your own map is too much work. Put your directional skills to the test.

[Darklord]

Guys, going a bit far there, please be nice.

Daniel.

[jfunk]

form better sentences and stop being bitter that i choose to make use of technology when you choose to hold on to nostalgia.

i never said graphing by hand was wrong, nor did i say it is a bad thing. i just said i dont do it because it is an unnecessary amount of work or involvement. also, what you quoted was a sarcastic squabble between myself and darklord, that had a blatantly obvious answer to his rhetorical question. do not get upset because you did not catch this.

the fact is, i said i dont hand draw maps because i said i like to assume my RPG characters are smart enough to bring paper along with them for this very reason, hence automapping is in the game. darklord said they were tossed in as prisoners, i provided logic based on in-game examples to support my point of view.

lastly, since i seemed to offend your sensibilities so drastically because you cannot accept that i have no desired to hand draw something when the game provides the tools to do it for me (even though i never once said anything bad about those who choose to hand draw, only that i have no desire to do it, but hey, whatever), it is you who is providing the broken analogy by saying i should just watch the youtube videos of the cutscenes, becuase watching 3 minutes of a 15+ hour game totally gives me the experience i am looking for that i get by PLAYING the game.

but i mean, what do i know.~

Actually, the "work" thing was referencing your first post (work smarter, not harder). I didn't feel like going back to the previous page to quote it, but assumed you would understand I was responding to all of your thoughts based on the obvious context clues.

No, I'm not upset. I don't have any problem with people not being interested in the tedium of hand mapping a video game. I would never try to convince somebody that has no interest in such an exercise that it was the "proper" way to do it. I was merely pointing out your flawed logic (automap is more efficient).

People hand map because it's fun, not because it's efficient. Clearly you see the flaw in your efficiency argument by your response to my suggestion that you just look up the results instead of playing it yourself. The same thing applies to those that prefer to hand map. Yes it takes longer, but we prefer the experience.

By the way, I should form better sentences? Did you even read your own post before clicking Submit? Read the "sentence" from your previous post beginning with the word "lastly" again.

[Gudadantza]

I agree, people handmap a game because it is fun. If it would not be fun for a player to make a map he would use an automap feature if it existed.

But there are a lot of reasons for not to choose old school mode. real life, physical space, commodity for doing it, time invested in auto entertainment... etc...

I can say one of the most rewarding things in a videogame like this is mapping and puzzle solving. When choosed or possible.

But, please, an automap is not like see a whole map on internet. It is created while you are playing. And there are great examples as the automap in Ultima underworld.

Greetings

[\/4n!ll4 ][c3]

Actually, the "work" thing was referencing your first post (work smarter, not harder). I didn't feel like going back to the previous page to quote it, but assumed you would understand I was responding to all of your thoughts based on the obvious context clues.

No, I'm not upset. I don't have any problem with people not being interested in the tedium of hand mapping a video game. I would never try to convince somebody that has no interest in such an exercise that it was the "proper" way to do it. I was merely pointing out your flawed logic (automap is more efficient).

People hand map because it's fun, not because it's efficient. Clearly you see the flaw in your efficiency argument by your response to my suggestion that you just look up the results instead of playing it yourself. The same thing applies to those that prefer to hand map. Yes it takes longer, but we prefer the experience.

By the way, I should form better sentences? Did you even read your own post before clicking Submit? Read the "sentence" from your previous post beginning with the word "lastly" again.

what's the matter? never heard of a compound sentence? or are you one of those english majors that feel that "run-on sentences," american only in invention as they are, that you cannot keep track of the subject of a sentence unless it is broken up every 15 words?

also, there is nothing flawed with my logic, there is nothing illogical about my "work smarter, not harder" statement, and im sorry, but using automap is more efficient. efficiency is achieving a result with the least amount of required energy/material. automapping does not require paper (more efficient), a pen/pencil (more efficient), nor does it require me to walk through an area multiple times to make sure what i have drawn accurately corresponds to the game (more efficient).

the bolded bit -- and so you dont get confused, i am talking about you telling me to watch the cutscences from the game rather that actually playing the game and solving all the puzzles and figuring out the boss fight and all that good stuff, you know the meat of the game -- makes no sense from the perspective of me saying i am choosing to play the game with a feature that was built-in to it to make my gaming experience more enjoyable (note the keyword "my"). it seems your issue comes from the fact that i am choosing to take advantage of a game feature and you are, in a round about way, attempting to demean my preference. which, im sorry, but that is YOUR issue. not mine.

have fun nerdraging to yourself about that one.

automapping ftw.