2x2 strafing undermines character building [edited]

[SodanKerjuu]

Show me "Enter thy grave" without getting hit.
No, don't trick the door, you must be inside the small room with three skeletons.

Show me Fighters challenge with pure dps charactecs, no survivability skills.
I'm quite certain having those armors and high hitpoint pools is easier way.

I put skill points to athletics and armor, not a single moment went by when I thought those points should have been put somewhere else.
Requesting a video where people manage to do their alleged "99% of time I don't get hit".


So what if 1vs1 combat is easy? If every single encounter would be a matter of life and death then playing of game would become really cumbersome, amount of combats would have to be reduced, balance needs to be rethought. It is like saying imps, cacodemons and hell knights in doom are too easy because you can just dodge their projectiles. Sometimes putting a single monster against the player party is not intended to be a challenge, but a reward. Oh, how good it feels to butcher that lonely spider without it having the slightest chance of retaliation.


One point I like to add is a difference between LoG and older dungeon crawler games.
In old games you don't regenerate hitpoints normally. Only when resting or by using healing.
It leads to that each hit you receive you will feel until you get a place to rest. That is a chance I could opt for.

[Whisper]

I dare you to beat the Fighter's Challenge with a lvl 1 solo

Nice comeback. Bravo.

Maybe lets talk about 99.999% of other fights which can be cheesed by 2x2 dancing except probably only exception which you named?

[Insectoid]

I think the effectiveness of the strafing tactic undermines the whole RPG / character building aspect of the game. Crabs, ogres.. they all go down without ever even getting to attack you. Defensive abilities and stats become meaningless. I think there's a lot of room for improvement here.
Suggestions:
- Add rules of engagement. If you strafe away from a monster, it gets free attacks at you. If you dance around monsters instead of facing them, you deserve to be eaten. (There could be skills to increase Evasion bonus against these attacks for those who like this style of gameplay.)
- Add a short delay or build-up to attacks so you have to stay in the square longer when attacking. Daggers could have less/no delay so Rogues could still feel like ninjas. The delay could also help make weapons feel different - slow heavy hitting vs. small and fast. (i.e. click on Great Hammer.. build up sound effect plays.. 2 seconds later the attack lands with a massive thud)
- Prevent moving completely under certain circumstances (say, someone is grabbed by a tentacle). Or have the incapacitated party member be auto-killed if the rest of the party flees instead of helps.
- Give some large monsters the ability to sweep attack across all 3 squares in front of them.
- Have some monsters attack so fast you have no time to strafe
- Make charging monsters a bit smarter

No offense 1varangian, but that seems to me like a very creative brainstorming for: "How to make this awesome game all shitty".

@AH: Please don't do any of this!

Kind regards
Insectoid

[Whisper]

No offense 1varangian, but that seems to me like a very creative brainstorming for: "How to make this awesome game all shitty".

@AH: Please don't do any of this!

Kind regards
Insectoid

They can as well remove defensive trees like Dodge and Staff defence.

Because 2x2 dance >>>>>>>>>>>> them. As long as you can do 2x2 you realy have 0 purpose for such skills. in 99,999% fights.
You better only go for full DPS because it shortens amount of dancing you do.

[BlueLegion]

No offense 1varangian, but that seems to me like a very creative brainstorming for: "How to make this awesome game all shitty".

@AH: Please don't do any of this!

Kind regards
Insectoid

They can as well remove defensive trees like Dodge and Staff defence.

Because 2x2 dance >>>>>>>>>>>> them. As long as you can do 2x2 you realy have 0 purpose for such skills. in 99,999% fights.
You better only go for full DPS because it shortens amount of dancing you do.

please go play a different game

[Whisper]

Because almost every combat in Grimrock is now 2x2 waltz, being most important part and probably only part that really matter of "combat".

Maybe add difficulty for people who wants to their skills/stats/items to matter more then dexterity to 2x2?

[Darklord]

Please be nice guys.

Daniel.

[sapientCrow]

My feeling here is that I played Grimrock to solve the maze and explore the secrets with combat being a motivator to either move through an area or use the enemies in the grid system to accomplish a task. Going heavy into combat mechanics which is not to say it's something that can be modded in later on or designed would take away from the grid system and its underlying design. What is being talked about as for fixes is ultimately free roaming no grid fps style just slowed down to have it work inside a grid system. Which as posted could work if they simply slowed time or turned it into a turn based game but that would be a cause for complaints over monotony too.
Also the group fights would be nigh impossible without area effect spells and direct access to all 4 spell resist shields.
I still get my ass handed to me when fighting those little poison hurling shrooms. 2 of them in any combination of adjacent squares is a wipe

[Whisper]

All we ask is to add difficulty level where 2x2 dancing is not most important part of combat (much more important then character stats/equipment/skills combined).

Adding optional difficulty wont in any way prevent you from playing on usual difficulties in which combat is mainly based on dancing around enemy.

[mystrdat]

No, that's a no.