2x2 strafing undermines character building [edited]

[Spathi]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism# ... _criticism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism# ... _criticism

Just trying to help

One fun aspect about the current way it works is if you get stuck in a corner then you have a hell of a fun battle to escape, or you just get punished and die. That would be an argument for conservative criticism of the OP.

[Elderian]

Hi,

Cadmus, you might want to consider the Wikipedia text about constructive critcism, so you see that yours is destructive criticism... the description of which is right below.

I also like the game very much the way it is, but i think, that the fights vary too greatly in difficulty: When there is enough space to move around, my group kills most enemies without taking a single hit. If there is more than one enemy or the group is trapped, it is just plain hard to fight.

My preferred solution would be completely tactiacl combat as in the old SSI gold box games. But since that would mean a completely different fell of the gam, i don't think that this will be done.

Elderian

[Cadmus]

I'm not building a case for criticism. Doing so would basically lend some amount of legitimacy to the points being contested, and I do not feel like any of them deserves it. Now you can go on linking to Wikipedia, making even more of a condescending fool of yourself as you ever hoped to be, but that, in the end, is really none of my concern.

My point is that, as many other fans of the game, I actually like combat in LoG because -gasp!- I find it fun as it is. I don't want it to be modified in order to please a subset of the fandom who already is WAY overthinking this instead of enjoying the game for what it actually is - a great game in its own right. So thanks, but no thanks. I'll pass on those ideas.

[1varangian]

- Add a short delay or build-up to attacks so you have to stay in the square longer when attacking. Daggers could have less/no delay so Rogues could still feel like ninjas. The delay could also help make weapons feel different - slow heavy hitting vs. small and fast. (i.e. click on Great Hammer.. build up sound effect plays.. 2 seconds later the attack lands with a massive thud)

They do have weapon delays already slower weapons take longer to cycle.

The suggestion is to add a delay between clicking to attack and actually landing the attack. Before the attack, not a cooldown. So you would have to stay in the square longer for the mobs to get a chance to counterattack.

It's utterly ridiculous how easy it is to kill anything without them ever getting a chance to counterattack now.

[1varangian]

I can see the appeal of the strafe type of gameplay too. It's a kind of Tetris trying to stay out of harms way and getting that backstab in.

The problem is that it's way too easy and reliable. It trivializes combat a lot. Circle strafing crabs and ice lizards becomes such a chore. Sometimes I just stop strafing and let them attack because I know I can just resume strafing anytime I get hurt. Combat should always feel dangerous instead of a chore. Giving the player god-like control over the outcome does undermine the whole deal.

And since it is a party based game, I would rather see the player rewarded for good use of party dynamics than his mad strafing skillz. With the strafe being so easy and effective you basically only need one party member 95% of the time, with the other 3 only coming in handy if you make a mistake and get cornered. The difference between monster X in a hallway and monster X in an open space is also huge. Why does monster x who just slaughters you in a hallway suddenly get no chance to attack you at all?

I wonder if it would be possible to make the game work for both solo rogues (strafing as is, emphasis on player movement) OR a party of 4 with strafing limitations, emphasis on group dynamics.

[Spathi]

The suggestion is to add a delay between clicking to attack and actually landing the attack. Before the attack, not a cooldown. So you would have to stay in the square longer for the mobs to get a chance to counterattack.

That is actually better than what I was thinking... this means you can still run past something, but if you want to land a blow you are mini-paused. You effectively control how slow you are by your actions.

With this method there is no way to avoid the large creatures though unless you always approach from behind, which is a problem. I think you still need to be able to eat/dodge a blow from an ogre or whatever while landing one. For this to work the hits from the ogre/creature would have to start at reduced damage and increase in intensity the longer you stood in the same square.

This could work even if there was no creature (he snuck up on you), you take full damage because you were in the square for more than a second or two.

[Lmaoboat]

I made a thread on ideas for making combat more interesting than just strafing everything to death:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1909
Doesn't solve the problem of defensive stats not being useful much, though, but specific enemies and encounters can be made to solve that.
</shamelessselfpromotion>

[Whisper]

There is basically no need to go for defensive skills trees. As long as you have manual dexterity.

Any combat can be won by level 1 solo character if you are good at strafing.
Since most monsters are slow or very slow - its super easy to strafe them.

Working as intended?

[Whisper]

But developers wont change it.

I can bet on this.


They dont want complains, because if they limit 2x2 dancing - it would actualy matter how you build your party. Which is hard intellectual activity for wide masses whom "just want to have fun without thinking about anything", so amount of "spiders kills me" topics would multiply by 100.

[BlueLegion]

There is basically no need to go for defensive skills trees. As long as you have manual dexterity.

Any combat can be won by level 1 solo character if you are good at strafing.
Since most monsters are slow or very slow - its super easy to strafe them.
Working as intended?
But developers wont change it.
I can bet on this.

They dont want complains, because if they limit 2x2 dancing - it would actualy matter how you build your party. Which is hard intellectual activity for wide masses whom "just want to have fun without thinking about anything", so amount of "spiders kills me" topics would multiply by 100.

I dare you to beat the Fighter's Challenge with a lvl 1 solo