Why Not Bring a Mage?

[Kurguz]

As said before many times, the nice thing about Grimrock is that you can finish it with almost any combinations of race-classes.
But getting back to the point of the OP, I did finished my first run on Normal mode, with one minotaur-fighter (front line), two rogues (lizzard-evader (front) and human-dagger (back)) and for last an insectoid mage (fire/ice/spellcraft). On the mage i took Spellcraft to 10 (for the orbs and that stuff), Ice to 19 for the extra CC of the freeze proc. and 24 into Fire (for Greater Fireball), and now for the damage outputs...

My fighter did well on the early lvl's and stayed in the mid of the grid for the mid/late game, my two rogues did a good job all the time (i got the back one with throwing weapons until mid/late) and the mage, oh boy the mage, on the early lvls it lacked a bit of damage output but once i got to mid/late, he turned into a beast, with the Greater Fireball skill and the Zhandul's Orb it did just MELT anything (besides Uggardias ofc, for them i had the frostbolt+rogues backstabbing), I had allways a fireball prepared just in case something poped out the corner, but he was capable of doing the same or even more damage in a row than the other 3 together (without criting/special atacks) so my vote? BRING IT!!!

[waylander]

i,ve gone with 4 mages.oh well.

[NakedGranny]

I think one could have made the same thread asking "Why not to bring a warrior".

no, one could not.

the vast, vast majority of equipment in the game is for Fighters. no other class has the skills to make good use of the best weapons in the game, and certainly not the best armors. and even besides that, there just is not enough Rogue or Mage gear to support more than one of them. the sheer configuration of available items in the game allows two Fighters, one or two Rogues (one of them Daggers one of them Ranged) and a single Mage. your only option is whether to have two Rogues, otherwise you're basically confined to going through the game with half your party naked and unarmed.

and this is completely ignoring the fact that Fighters are extremely powerful, only surpassed by Dodge & Dagger Rogues in the very late game while backstabbing.

[affa]

In the end, and extra rogue probably be easier (less clicking and hazzle) and at least as effective in terms of damage.

for me, it's all about the clicks. i hate how much clicking the mage requires, and i never end up using them in battle (except for a single pre-prepared spell). i don't use them because they're annoying to use, which is an interface issue.

[t0tem]

I went for upgraded Ice bolt as fast as I could, which was good. But only because it let the other characters get more hits it didn't really do any significant damage once you pass dungeon level 6 or so.

[Rozy]

I don't think I'd ever run a team without a mage. There's nothing that helps a fight go my way faster than my fire mage in my current team.

Though I currently don't think there'd be a way to have 2 fighters and have it work out. There seems to be a fair spread of armor but at most, one GOOD set at a time. And of course your fighter needs the good armor. Weapons would be less important for that since it does look like there's a good spread there all around.

Rouges? I'm actually surprised there's so many options for them. I guess a team of four could work but it would be a bit boring and pragmatic. Unarmed combat seems pretty good for them as well as throwing.

Mages do seem to need more stuff though, Orin's been using the same staff since level one. Now I could of just not found another one but it does feel strange.

[Chiller]

the vast, vast majority of equipment in the game is for Fighters. no other class has the skills to make good use of the best weapons in the game, and certainly not the best armors. and even besides that, there just is not enough Rogue or Mage gear to support more than one of them. the sheer configuration of available items in the game allows two Fighters, one or two Rogues (one of them Daggers one of them Ranged) and a single Mage. your only option is whether to have two Rogues, otherwise you're basically confined to going through the game with half your party naked and unarmed.

You are assuming something which isn't true, namely that you need skills to actually use armor. The game has no such restrictions. My back row guys, be they mages or rogues, pretty much end up clad in very heavy armor.

Your choice of weapons is more limited as they do have some requirements. If you want to attack efficiently the only class that's actually restricted is the Fighter (you can only have 2 of them because they can only use front row weapons).

Edit: forgot weapons have skill requirements.

[Saice]

I don't think I'd ever run a team without a mage. There's nothing that helps a fight go my way faster than my fire mage in my current team.

Though I currently don't think there'd be a way to have 2 fighters and have it work out. There seems to be a fair spread of armor but at most, one GOOD set at a time. And of course your fighter needs the good armor. Weapons would be less important for that since it does look like there's a good spread there all around.

Rouges? I'm actually surprised there's so many options for them. I guess a team of four could work but it would be a bit boring and pragmatic. Unarmed combat seems pretty good for them as well as throwing.

Mages do seem to need more stuff though, Orin's been using the same staff since level one. Now I could of just not found another one but it does feel strange.

Check the link in the sig. 2 fighters 2 rouges completed the game fine in 13 hours no mage.

The thing with mages is you can normally cycle through all your attacks in your party in the time it takes to cast the lowest level spell. For me that was the deal breaker.

There might not be two sets of Valor but there is at lest three full heavy armors sets 1 valor and at lest 2 full plate that make two fighters vary viable. And there is a ton of light armor. only 1 evasion set though. There is also a apex weapon for every weapon type.

There is only a hand full of mage gear over all.

SpoilerShow

I believe I found 3 orbs 4 rods/staffs 1 hat and 2 cloaks

YMMV mages are fun for there one click BOOM! but honestly I found they a bit of a let down. I was totally originally going to rock a fire mage in my group. But after a bit of play opt'd to restart with out one because he was just lacking.

[Rozy]

Again YMMV. I would think a 2 and two party would be boring anyway. in mine the only character I find lacking at times is my Throwing weapons rogue and that's just because I've only found two good throwing weapons so far, and even then she contributes a lot.

Plus I don't get the speed issue. I can cast flame burst in very nearly the same time it takes to do a normal attack. Two more clicks but still less than half a second of clicking.

Though really I wouldn't say mages need a buff so much as rogues need a nerf from what I hear. They might be just a little too versatile.

[Saice]

I was able to get through my whole party in under a second. With this most of the time I could attack with my full party and then step away and not get hit. And with 3 of my guys with fast weapons and one with a slow one (solved with a potion of speed when needed) I had little down time in fights were I was waiting for someone to cycle.

Mind you I love mages I normally play them in fantasy games. Just not in grimrock.

My new play through is solo Toorum and I'm going full on fire mage with him for the challenge of it.