Please not mods/DLCs

[Sabatasso]

Mods and DLCs is a modern feature in gaming. But I am not sure it will work with old school games like Grimrock. Grimrock is not just hacking and slashing, it's after all puzzles. An I don't thing that fan based mods would add much to this. I would rather prefer a sequel, directly from the original development team. A trilogy would be ideal! And from what I remember every classic game (adventure or rpg) that had a sequel, this sequel superseded the first installment. (EOB, CSB, Baldur's Gate, Monkey Island, Day of the Tentacle), whenever the original team was involved in the sequel as well. So please, do not give the engine to the public please make a sequel!

What do other people think?

I think you're wrong. The best community made stuff will exceed original content by far, but there will also be crap.
I'd like to see both, and if you don't want community made stuff, nobody will force you to download it.

[Durgha]

If i was a developer I would pursue something else. Too much content usually works the other way also. People get boredof the game and stop playing it, especially if the level of the content is not up to the level of the original. Not to mention that longing for a new game (sequel) fades away, when you have tons of mods to play.

That's somewhere between conjecture and drivel, since you're obviously not a representative of the community nor qualified to speak to the interests of the developers.

Moreover this particular genre of game has been virtually extinct for over a decade, and suddenly you're raising concerns over "too much content." I'm having a very hard time taking you seriously. Content (user-generated or otherwise) is what's needed right now for Grimrock to establish a significant playerbase willing to fund future projects. Anything that expedites that content is a good thing for the players, AH, and the genre as a whole.

There's no basis whatsoever for implying mods degrade future installments in a series. Your argument makes no sense.

[Greco]

Dear Durgha,

Because I see some misinterprentation of what I am saying, please read my comments below.

That's somewhere between conjecture and drivel, since you're obviously not a representative of the community nor qualified to speak to the interests of the developers.

But I am a user/player and as such I speak. expressing of course my personal opinion.

Moreover this particular genre of game has been virtually extinct for over a decade, and suddenly you're raising concerns over "too much content." I'm having a very hard time taking you seriously.

Me too because as I see you are misinterpreting what I say to your favor. As much as I love eating fish, I would hate it if I eat it every day for one month. That's the analogue. Too much of something becomes boring.

Content (user-generated or otherwise) is what's needed right now for Grimrock to establish a significant playerbase willing to fund future projects. Anything that expedites that content is a good thing for the players, AH, and the genre as a whole.

Games like Grimrock do not need to build a fanbase. They have one of their own. Good games do not need etablished fanbase. They build it instantly. Not to mention that Grimrock already has one due to the legacy it carries (from games like EOB and DM). The longing for a new game (from those extinct as you correctly say genre) drove the sales.

There's no basis whatsoever for implying mods degrade future installments in a series. Your argument makes no sense.

I see that you have little understanding of what I say. Perhaps my english are not good enough. To clarify things I never said that. What I said was that it would degrade the desire for a new game. It is completely different from what you imply.

[Raddra]

If you don't want to use mods/DLC's then don't download and play them.

Stop trying to decide what other people do / enjoy with their single player games.

I am holding my breath with excitement at the desire to download some other nifty things like portraits, classes and levels.

[Saice]

What I said was that it would degrade the desire for a new game. It is completely different from what you imply.

So what you are saying is People would not buy a new game if they have mods?

I think Bethesda might have words with you about how Mods effected the DLC, Expatiations, and Sequels to their games

[Crash]

Mods and DLCs is a modern feature in gaming. But I am not sure it will work with old school games like Grimrock. Grimrock is not just hacking and slashing, it's after all puzzles.
What do other people think?

Let's consider the classic games Dungeon Master and Chaos Strikes Back. In addition to the original games, there are also user created re-writes and clones with dungeon editors, and in some cases, greatly enhanced capabilities. Numerous deep, high quality, intelligent dungeons have been created by users for these games, and anyone who enjoyed the originals may appreciate the new content. The ones I've played have been a great deal of fun, if not as much fun as the original dungeons. You can find out more about these at the Dungeon Master Encyclopedia and the Dungeon Master Forums:

http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=view/CustomDungeons
http://www.dungeon-master.com/forum/vie ... hp?t=23916

These are relevant examples of old school games with user created downloadable mods/content, and it absolutely works.

Another example of user created puzzle content, would be for Portal and Portal 2, for which many excellent user created maps or map packs are available.

The availability of such an editor for Legend of Grimrock would allow quality user created dungeons complete with creative puzzles and challenging gameplay. This is indeed a good thing because it allows us to keep playing a game that we enjoy, but with fresh challenges until an official expansion or sequel is released. It would keep the game fresh in our consciousness, vs. wondering "what ever happened to Half Life Episode 3", and ultimately forgetting about it. The simple fact is that players can complete the content much more quickly than a developer can create it. Replayability is one thing, but there are only so many times most of us want to play the same adventure, particularly when we already know how to solve the puzzles. (I enjoy the secrets in LoG, but for those that I cannot obviously see such as a gate or door I can't open, I'm not sure how much patience I have to search every wall on every level for tiny clues, so I am unlikely to find these even after several plays).

I do not think the intention is for developer to release a dungeon editor and be done with it. I would imagine that they would probably use a version of the editor themselves to create their own content that will be offered in the future. Allowing the users to have access to such an editor would be a great gift, and I believe it will help promote the game, but if I understand correctly the developer plans to continuing creating highest quality content of their own as well.

With regard to whether this would degrade the desire for a new game, I really don't think so because it allows less interruption between enjoyment of the game. Look at games like Oblivion, which had tons of mods thanks to a mod editor, developer expansions, and the tremendously successful sequel Skyrim. The same can be said of Fallout 3 through to Fallout New Vegas. Some developers have figured out that the combination of a game that people enjoy, mod tools, and DLC expansions, is a successful way of building a strong and devoted fan base, and a resultingly successful franchise. That said, I haven't found any dungeons in any of those games that hold a candle to the one in Legend of Grimrock.

Finally, think of it this way. LoG is a certain number of levels and then the game concludes. What if the number of levels was doubled? What if they were tripled? Would you stop playing out of boredom, or would you keep playing because it was still fun?

Cheers

[Greco]

What I said was that it would degrade the desire for a new game. It is completely different from what you imply.

So what you are saying is People would not buy a new game if they have mods?

I think Bethesda might have words with you about how Mods effected the DLC, Expatiations, and Sequels to their games

Please stop trying to interpret what I say. What I say is crystal clear. I didn't say that they wouldn't buy a new game. Hardcore fans will surely buy it. But what about the rest. If you take me as an example I personally have stopped playing FPS game, after quake 2. They all seem the same for my, and I have gotten sick with them. That's what probably happened with adventure games which were published with the dozen in late 90's. They cease to exist because people got sick with them (and because puzzles are not for everybody of course). Now they are making slowly their way back. Why? Because they are a lot of time out of the scene, and many people have started desiring them again. Too much of something kills everything. Sometimes when you miss something you feel more enthousiastic when you get it back. That's the point I want to make through this thread.

[Lmaoboat]

This type of game needs mods and DLC more than many other types. When a huge part of the game's fun is from solving puzzles and finding secrets, you loose a lot of replayability. You can circle strafe giant enemy crabs only so many times before it gets boring.

[Doom972]

First of all, mods aren't all that new. I used to play Doom mods in the late 90s.
Second, if you don't want any additions to the game, nobody makes you get them.
Personally, I'm looking forward for user-made content and more dungeons made by the developers.

[Sol_HSA]

Please stop trying to interpret what I say. What I say is crystal clear. I didn't say that they wouldn't buy a new game. Hardcore fans will surely buy it. But what about the rest. If you take me as an example I personally have stopped playing FPS game, after quake 2.

Well, the developers of Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare must be super lucky then that there are over 10 million hardcore fans of first person shooters.