With regret

[mike30542]

I don't think much has to be said about the good old "l2p". It's not a hidden object adventure, it's not Dear Esther, it's an oldschool dungeon with a modern twist - you are expected to have at least basic control skills to play it. If you don't have those, you must be suffering in many other game genres and it's about time you "l2p" - by trial and error, practice making perfect. I don't believe the devs should spend any time deviating from their intention to cater to your under-Easy gaming level - how about you simply improve instead? Sorry for being direct, but this is what Bruce Lee would say.

Where did I ask the developers to deviate from their intentions? I admitted that I had problems coping with the combat style required to succeed at the game & maybe my basic skills are not all the should be but some of us not "blessed" the way you obviously are. That should not stop me from wanting to play this game.

[dark]

I don't think much has to be said about the good old "l2p". It's not a hidden object adventure, it's not Dear Esther, it's an oldschool dungeon with a modern twist - you are expected to have at least basic control skills to play it. If you don't have those, you must be suffering in many other game genres and it's about time you "l2p" - by trial and error, practice making perfect. I don't believe the devs should spend any time deviating from their intention to cater to your under-Easy gaming level - how about you simply improve instead? Sorry for being direct, but this is what Bruce Lee would say.

Where did I ask the developers to deviate from their intentions? I admitted that I had problems coping with the combat style required to succeed at the game & maybe my basic skills are not all the should be but some of us not "blessed" the way you obviously are. That should not stop me from wanting to play this game.

It’s not you Mike, its just that some people here can’t cope with others having issues in the game.

Once I get the console command and you use that command, you can slow the game down, that will probably help you a lot.

[Curunir]

In other news, reliable sources reveal secret, leaked developer screenshots of Legend of Grimrock, the shocking truth revealed:

http://i.imgur.com/wvKlb.jpg

(sorry but I just had to...)

[gasgas]

This game requires a lot of manual dexterity, you need to get the timing based upon monster animations to dodge them, I understand it's not easy at all, actually it's quite hard, expecially considering some pretty annoying timed puzzles. To win this game you really need to dodge the enemy attacks and even if you are level 13, you still can't afford to stay still against weak monsters.
I've found it very challenging and had to reload plenty of times because that wrong move or that pit fall.

[Arctor]

1. Turn on the arrow button UI. Use it.
2. Don't panic. The mushrooms move very slowly. Move out of the way when they get close.
3. Prepare:
a) Lock/load spells like Ice Shards (travels in a straight line, hitting multiple enemies)
b) Prepare energy potions and give to back row casters.
c) Prepare antivenin potions and health potions and give to front row fighters
4. Remap movement keys to arrow keys for quick, intuitive movement. Rotate by click rotate buttons on screen, and attacking/casting.
5. Approach this slowly and methodically and it's done with in no time.

[mystrdat]

I don't think much has to be said about the good old "l2p". It's not a hidden object adventure, it's not Dear Esther, it's an oldschool dungeon with a modern twist - you are expected to have at least basic control skills to play it. If you don't have those, you must be suffering in many other game genres and it's about time you "l2p" - by trial and error, practice making perfect. I don't believe the devs should spend any time deviating from their intention to cater to your under-Easy gaming level - how about you simply improve instead? Sorry for being direct, but this is what Bruce Lee would say.

Not necessarilly. I consider easier control the free movement of a FPS than the timing movement of an action moment in LoG. Different skill is needed. He can be a genious in other type of game.

You said it, at "other type of game". This is not the "other type of game".

[seebs]

I don't think much has to be said about the good old "l2p".

Huh. You mean like l2p, noob?

Fact is, it's not just a matter of learning; different people have different reflexes and speed and so on.

There is gonna be stuff I can do in games that you can't; like, no matter how much you practice or study or train, you could never do these things. There is gonna be stuff you can do in games that I can't; again, not a matter of practice or study or training. People differ.

[mystrdat]

I don't think much has to be said about the good old "l2p". It's not a hidden object adventure, it's not Dear Esther, it's an oldschool dungeon with a modern twist - you are expected to have at least basic control skills to play it. If you don't have those, you must be suffering in many other game genres and it's about time you "l2p" - by trial and error, practice making perfect. I don't believe the devs should spend any time deviating from their intention to cater to your under-Easy gaming level - how about you simply improve instead? Sorry for being direct, but this is what Bruce Lee would say.

Where did I ask the developers to deviate from their intentions? I admitted that I had problems coping with the combat style required to succeed at the game & maybe my basic skills are not all the should be but some of us not "blessed" the way you obviously are. That should not stop me from wanting to play this game.

You don't have to directly ask for something that you want for it to be obvious - eg. some dramatic changes to the combat system, turn-based as you mentioned, slow-down, extra difficulty with a mashup of all the previous mentions, whatever. As I said, this is not a personal insult, I am being very generic here. If you suck, you should get better. The simple comparison would be to a sport - let's say you really want to play tennis, but you suck at it. Would you expect the tennis rules to accomodate your lack of skills or would the tennis crowd expect you to simply get better by practicing? I'm not entirely sure what do you expect to happen here, the best outcome of what you want is for you to get better. I won't deny I don't particularly suck at games having some eSport history, but it's not like that I have some "blessed" magical fingers either. Saying that the game is hard is still quite an overstatement, because it is not and understanding the crucial combat mechanics, dodging enemies on 2x2 tiles and solving time based puzzles is what makes the game as it is. You want to play the game that it is? Well how about you simply do it and you'll eventually improve by trial and error. You won't get a better answer than that around no matter how much sympathy someone else has for you. Sympathy doesn't do anything, it's like a prayer, like a fart in a bus.

[mystrdat]

I don't think much has to be said about the good old "l2p".

Huh. You mean like l2p, noob?

Fact is, it's not just a matter of learning; different people have different reflexes and speed and so on.

There is gonna be stuff I can do in games that you can't; like, no matter how much you practice or study or train, you could never do these things. There is gonna be stuff you can do in games that I can't; again, not a matter of practice or study or training. People differ.

I can see this being true for hitting 80% railgun accuracy in Quake, but certainly not in a game which in fact so forgiving on your motorics. Like what, pressing D and 1 second later pressing W is hard? What exactly is hard about the game aside learning how the combat mechanics work? If you really insint on these controls being hard no matter how subjective that may be, you're sidetracked by sympathy for utter noobs that need to get better. People surely differ, but we're not asking them to play I Wanna Be The Guy on impossible mode here, are we? What's next, tetris being too blocky?

[seebs]

I can see this being true for hitting 80% railgun accuracy in Quake, but certainly not in a game which in fact so forgiving on your motorics. Like what, pressing D and 1 second later pressing W is hard?

You think that's a second? Have you timed any of this?

What exactly is hard about the game aside learning how the combat mechanics work? If you really insint on these controls being hard no matter how subjective that may be, you're sidetracked by sympathy for utter noobs that need to get better. People surely differ, but we're not asking them to play I Wanna Be The Guy on impossible mode here, are we? What's next, tetris being too blocky?

Okay, lemme just give you an example. From another game, but it's a pretty good example.

You may be aware that, in MMOs, you're not supposed to stand in fire. Fire is represented by gigantic ground effects. So. Basically, if your character, who is in the middle of your display, is surrounded by gigantic brightly-colored ground effects, move.

Easy, right?

I can't do it reliably unless I have been told, in advance of a given fight, what color ground effects to look for. Seriously. My screen can be FULL OF FIRE and I can't see it because I didn't know to look for it, and I have to know roughly what to look for to keep it from getting filtered.

This isn't a matter of "learning". I can't suddenly be able to detect fire effects without knowing what to look for. I can't train into that. I just have to ask people if there's an effect to watch out for, and roughly what it looks like.

For a DM-like game, let's say we have a simple timing puzzle. Move forward one square every tick (they're usually half a second or so). You have to be within, say, a tenth of a second of the tick. If there's audio cues, I can do this. If there aren't, I can't. I do not have timing that's reliable even within a tenth of a second over that long a delay, because my awareness is heavily timesliced and I simply can't tell that my brain just paged out what I was doing for a bit. When I was playing DM back in college, people would chat with me. I'd experience a totally ordinary conversation. They'd experience multi-second pauses between words.

This is not a matter of "need to get better". The person who asked for the movement arrows, because they had only one hand and couldn't play with both hands? Not a matter of "need to get better". I really enjoy grimrock, but simultaneously moving and casting spells is pretty hard for me -- that's two separate sets of spatial relations (one 2D on screen, one 2D on map) I have to juggle simultaneously, and in practice I move and then click a rune, move and then click a rune, and so on.

There's a lot of people out there who have much more significant differences than you are taking into account. If you haven't spent a lot of time around people with, say, very severe ADHD or some form of autism spectrum thing, or whatever else, you might not realize just how different people get.