Key Buffering problem with timed puzzles

[Pipsissiwa]

Completely agree with the OP.

Dexterity and quickness are a growing issue as I move deeper in the dungeon.

It's challenging to figure out how the puzzles should be solved, and I understand that some puzzles ask for speed.

Yet once I figured out what to do, no problems trying several times before success, but when I fall short of the target more than 30 times in a row, it's just plain BORING.
Currently on level 5 in the Deserted Tunnels door, and after trying more than 30 times I'm considering to move to another game.
Level 4 final one was also a chore.

The keyboard buffering and responsivness of the game is poor considering the speed required.
Don't know if it a problem with my laptop keyboard, or my aging dexterity. But the speed challenge are poorly balanced. The game is advertized as a dungeon puzzle solving one, not an extreme arcade game.


Edit: Turning down gfx options help a lot, thanks for pointing this out., maybe the op should edit his post to mention this on top of the thread.

Obviously Gfx are more complex than DM, yet it quite surprising that the high level of gfx details tax the game so much. As this is not a FPS or a full 3D game, which works decently on my computer. Core I5 mobile 430, 2.27Ghz, nvidia GT325M

I don't know if there 's an issue with the nvidia Ptimus system which include both an Intel Gfx adaptor and the nvidia custom accelerator

(She ) has updated original post with all the info and tips people here have posted.

I agree - I'm all up for a challenge and have no inherent problems with timed puzzles, but yes, once you've figured out what to do, doing that over and over and over gets boring fast. I'd say 10 attempts MAX should be needed to complete most timed puzzles - it really should be less. I had to do the Gear Key one over 200 times - I didn't count the first hours worth of goes and then lost count but its a good guestimate. That just isn't fun, and it isn't simply a question of misunderstanding the controls - it is clear that some of us (for one reason or another) are getting (effectively) less time to do these puzzles than others.

Oh and sorry if in any post I sound a bit defensive - II don't mean to be but I got badly flamed for no good reason at all in this thread (I thought Grimrock players wouldn't be the sad trolls that you usually find - and thankfully most of you are awesome and helpful ) - it has made me cautious.

[jfunk]

Pipsissiwa,

Just to make sure it wasn't missed, I couldn't tell from your earlier post if you specifically turned off Ambient Occlusion. I think it's a separate option from all the sliders and such. It's definitely the single item that will probably make the biggest performance difference.

Judging from the responses accumulating here, I think this really is boiling down to a basic performance issue. The timing seems to be affected by poor performance. In other words, the "game time" and the graphics updates do not slow down at the same rate, so those experiencing sub-par performance are actually losing relative "action time" in the process.

[The_ShadoW]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there are NO timed puzzles longer than 5-6 steps that require you to do things perfectly.
For example, that puzzle with the door on level 5 has to be timed almost perfectly, but is really really short.
On the other hand, the pillar puzzle on level 6 gives you quite a good bit of extra time in case you make an error.

Also note that you can abuse save system to solve any timed puzzle in a very slow manner.

PS: On the other hand, if general performance affects these puzzles -- it's a bug and it really should be fixed. I can't say anything here, as I'm running it on a rig that can run 10 or so instances of LoG simultaneously without slowing down.

[jfunk]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there are NO timed puzzles longer than 5-6 steps that require you to do things perfectly.
For example, that puzzle with the door on level 5 has to be timed almost perfectly, but is really really short.
On the other hand, the pillar puzzle on level 6 gives you quite a good bit of extra time in case you make an error.

Also note that you can abuse save system to solve any timed puzzle in a very slow manner.

PS: On the other hand, if general performance affects these puzzles -- it's a bug and it really should be fixed. I can't say anything here, as I'm running it on a rig that can run 10 or so instances of LoG simultaneously without slowing down.

Yeah, I think that's really the issue here. People who are having very slow performance are actually losing the opportunity to input commands, as the "timer" is running faster than their screen updates.

It may be a fixable bug, but on the other hand only those that do not meet the minimum system requirements have reported the problem so far. They do exist for a reason.

[Halk]

Hmmm. I think the performance issues are highlighting a wee problem with the game inputs. I'm running the game on a very powerful PC, relative to the requirements, and I still find moving isn't quite as confident as it was in other examples of the genre, due to the way things work. It's difficult to put into words, but it feels as if my keyboard is slightly wonky. I think if it was made worse by my PC struggling to run the game that's when I'd see big problems. That's why I think the buffering could be perhaps looked at to see if anything could be done to smooth things out.

From my perspective though I'm only the slightest bit annoyed by it. It's having virtually no impact on my game. I only mention it to try to get a fuller explanation on what others are suffering.

[Pipsissiwa]

Pipsissiwa,

Just to make sure it wasn't missed, I couldn't tell from your earlier post if you specifically turned off Ambient Occlusion. I think it's a separate option from all the sliders and such. It's definitely the single item that will probably make the biggest performance difference.

Judging from the responses accumulating here, I think this really is boiling down to a basic performance issue. The timing seems to be affected by poor performance. In other words, the "game time" and the graphics updates do not slow down at the same rate, so those experiencing sub-par performance are actually losing relative "action time" in the process.

I've turned EVERYTHING off /minimum etc - running now on the lowest settings humanly possible.

[The_ShadoW]

I'm running the game on a very powerful PC, relative to the requirements, and I still find moving isn't quite as confident as it was in other examples of the genre, due to the way things work. It's difficult to put into words, but it feels as if my keyboard is slightly wonky.

There's a certain "tempo" you'd need to match: as soon as one move is finished, you need to press a button to do the next one. You can test this by comparing two runs: running forward by holding a key, and running forward by pressing the key each time. If you can do the second almost as fast as first, then you're good.

PS: On the other hand, turning around is faster than walking, so you have to adjust to that too. On the other-other hand, strafing is faster than turn+move, so sometimes you really need to use it too.

[Loktofeit]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there are NO timed puzzles longer than 5-6 steps that require you to do things perfectly.
For example, that puzzle with the door on level 5 has to be timed almost perfectly, but is really really short.
On the other hand, the pillar puzzle on level 6 gives you quite a good bit of extra time in case you make an error.

Also note that you can abuse save system to solve any timed puzzle in a very slow manner.

The level 6 puzzle is 5-6 steps just to get to the first button after activation alone. Yes, the very last step gives you a window of time, but everything up to that point has to be done rather quickly and accurately with no chance for pause.

That you suggest the save system as an option has me wondering if you've ever actually tried that for this puzzle.

[dark]

I agree with you. I don't think the game should be a test of manual dexterity at any point, and I feel the challenge should be entirely on the decisions we make, especially when under pressure. Failure to interface correctly with the keyboard shouldn't come into it.

Ill just add to this that I made a post expressing my frustration at this same thing. But what do many of us get for our trouble. We get people that turn on you and bash you and then tell you that this game isn’t for you. That’s how people treat others when we have an issue with the game. I love the game; I do not mind puzzles at all. But what I do mind is what is being said here about being rushed by a timer puzzle. The Pit traps especially drive me crazy.

I have said in a prior post that the timing on these puzzles needs to be a little more liberal and NOT force you to run like a madman to try and beat the timer. Its timing puzzles like this that takes a lot of the fun out of the game. It’s ok to have a timed puzzled, but not when you’re having to push button slide left, forward two space, turn left, forward three spaces, push button, slide left two spaces, move forward two spaces, turn right, forward two spaces, turn right, push button slide left, turn right, turn right, push button slide back, all of that and trying to not fall through into a pit. Agghh!!! You get my frustration? Fall through into pit because you missed a turn or went forward one space that you didn’t mean to.

This was a puzzle on level 6 that really peeved me off to not end trying to get the Sword of Nox. I still haven’t gotten that sword after countless tries and more than 2 hours of trying. The timing on these puzzles are entirely way to fast and need to be slowed down a few seconds. But this is what I and many others are experiencing and the focus on our frustrations. I don’t mind level puzzles that are combination puzzles. It’s the timing puzzles that are maddening.

And btw, this is NOT slowness in my system. I have a very powerful PC. 8GB Ram, ASUS MB, Quad Core Intel 2600K Proc, GTX 580 Video Card. So please do not even insinuate that this is a pc having slowness issues.

[Pipsissiwa]

It may be a fixable bug, but on the other hand only those that do not meet the minimum system requirements have reported the problem so far. They do exist for a reason.

In fairness, only four of us with this issue have actually posted our system specs and one is way above min spec (plus another who was easily above min but their issue may not have been quite the same), so that is maybe something of an assumption.

Perhaps if this is the primary effect of not meeting the minimum, even tho the game appears to run beautifully (it certainly does on mine - I'd have never believed I was below minimum looking at how the game runs), this should be mentioned with those minimum requirements - its an almost 'hidden' side effect that people probably won't notice until they reach the first tricky timed puzzle (in my case all was great until the gear key) and then they will be as disappointed and frustrated as I was. I've run many games (esp 3D) with less than minimum without any game breaking issues (occasional overall lag or juddering is usually the worst, and even that is rare with settings turned down)


Timed Puzzles are fine - they are a classic thing in games of this type, but personally I also think that slightly more leeway, even just a second or two would make these more accessible to all. Clearly some can do these puzzles in the time, so a few seconds extra wouldn''t make the blindest bit of difference to them. The game is supposed to be a challenge, but it shouldn't be so hard it makes you give up after failing 200 times and and go play something else. I doubt thats what the devs intended when they wanted to make this challenging.

I also suspect (an assumption but not an unreasonable one) that this game is especially appealling to older gamers like myself who grew up playing these games on the ST, Amiga etc. We're still great gamers, but not neccessarily with as good reactions/control as (eg) a 17 year old FPS nut....