Options for Frustration Reduction and Age/Ability Fairness

[maethlin]

I'm not even going to respond to the DONT LISTEN TO OP CHANGE NOTHING OR MAKE IT HARDER RAWR!1!! people - you add nothing to the conversation.

Ridiculous superiority complex - the devs can chose to listen to me or not, they are incredibly intelligent and talented people obviously to craft such a great game, and they are the best suited to deem whether or not my suggestions are reasonable.

It's exceedingly plain that there are people, through either age, ability or tastes, that really enjoy every single bit of difficulty in the game *except* the timing bits. I 100% understand and respect if the devs do not wish to address this segment of their playerbase, but I also think it's a worthwhile consideration. These people do not want to "ruin" the game for anyone else, nor make it a cakewalk. They simply don't enjoy twitch/dexterity tests, and would like an option to lessen that aspect of the game while keeping all others.

Again, if this is extremely time/consuming, my own personal preference is for new content, as I can handle these twitch tests pretty well right now, though I don't particularly enjoy them. But, if it's a simple fix, or something that can easily be worked into a future title with little trouble, I guarantee you a very sizeable chunk of people absolutely WANT the experience you are providing, minus the keyboard/dance-dance-revolution style test, and you'll make them enormously happy by adding the *option* to remove these (while not changing the default difficulty for anyone else).

[seebs]

I would love to see more options. There were a few parts of DM, and moreso CSB, which I found pretty frustrating even when I was young and spry. So far, LoG is mostly a pretty good fit for me, but I definitely found the spiders pretty annoying.

A general thought:
Difficulty isn't the same thing as amount of effort. In a lot of MMOs, a great deal of the "difficulty" is not that doing a particular thing is hard, but that you have to do it twenty or thirty times to get all the rewards. A game like LoG is in a much better place to allow for things which are genuinely hard to do, but that can create real frustration. Look at this amusing review:

http://www.theverge.com/gaming/2012/4/1 ... -of-memory

"By floor five or six, I began running into foes like ogres and fireball-shooting elementals that were impossible to stand toe to toe with. At these points, strategy shifted from choosing the correct spells and items to non-stop kiting."

Of course, experienced DM players are aware that you should have been kiting all along...

The biggest problem with tight timing puzzles is simply that you can't tell whether you're doing the wrong thing or just not timing it correctly. That can be a huge source of frustration if something will take you more than a few minutes to get right, because until you do it, you don't even know whether you're doing the right thing.

I think Grimrock would be improved by a lot more helpful inscriptions on the walls. One of the things I liked in DM was that all sorts of things were, if not explained, at least sort of hinted at.

[Myeka]

I think Grimrock would be improved by a lot more helpful inscriptions on the walls. One of the things I liked in DM was that all sorts of things were, if not explained, at least sort of hinted at.

You are totaly right but I think those inscriptions should be hidden at first, and the system detects the time spent on a riddle. If the time is too long, the system provides additional hints. You can even imagine a system where the 'thing' down there is whispering at you some clues when you're in trouble solving a puzzle (just like in Shadow Of the Collossus).

[seebs]

Maybe have hints at first, and if you interact with the puzzle in some way often enough, someone says "hmm, maybe it means..." or something like that.

... Come to think of it, doing that hint system well would probably be an amount of effort comparable to the rest of the game.

[Mychaelh]

... impossible to stand toe to toe with. At these points, strategy shifted ... to non-stop kiting."

It really does not make sense:
1) What he is talking about is tactics, not strategy.
2) The most basic tactics in ALL combat is 'Fire & Movement'-stuff (yes I'm talking about REAL life)

Just watch a boxing match on TV. Imagine they would stand 'toe to toe' all the time....
(yes, they have to face each other, but that's because it is a match with rules. In a real life tavern brawl things look different).

[Sabin Stargem]

I would like to have a stamina-draining stopwatch that slows time down. That would be nice for timing puzzles, and getting in those sneak attacks for the party's rogue. The tradeoff being that the party wouldn't have as much stamina to draw on due to the drainage. Does this seem like a good compromise?

[seebs]

FWIW, I traded some email with the reviewer, who is pretty cool, and he has played DM, he just doesn't like that style of combat as much. Fair enough. It is doubtless personal preference.

[Halk]

Hmm, if you don't like circling the enemies, or fighting a retreat then you might as well not bother with this game. You might as well say you don't like destroying buildings in an RTS or following a great big arrow in a Bioware game.

[seebs]

Hmm, if you don't like circling the enemies, or fighting a retreat then you might as well not bother with this game. You might as well say you don't like destroying buildings in an RTS or following a great big arrow in a Bioware game.

I would sorta tend to agree, although I think for some people it's fun for a while but then gets old.

[Jack Dandy]

I was actually pleasently surprised by the game's combat.
It seems kind of iffy to me before the game came out (never played a similar crawler), but the devs really went all out to make sure the enemies all act diffrently and force you to use proper tactics for each one. circle-strafing might be possible against the beginner enemies, but later one they'll wreck your shit proper if you try it, and that's without bringing in the game's mostly narrow environments which can limit you evn further.