Please provide a demo in the future.

[Crashbanito]

I think the Jimquisition words what I think better than I can:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/ ... omes-Theft


As for my attack, Halk, I did step out of line, but I think that stepping out of line was necessary. It triggers the necessary focus. I'm not apologizing, but yes, it was out of order.

Nothing wrong with focusing on a particular issue, but outbursts do little for any argument.

[Isaac]

So one merely needs to rationalize one's self interest to justify piracy?

It's a pretty sickening rational; scary to realize that it's not considered wrong (or even embarrassing) by so many.

The other side of that coin is this... What if I buy a game and it's buggy and incomplete. It doesn't do what the developer says it does and it's an utter waste of money.

"Buyer beware"; you ask somebody... Its no different from stealing an Xbox to see if you like it, rationalizing, "but what if it's a piece of junk".

The answer is you don't buy it if you cannot accept the risk. If it's a flop it will be common knowledge in a week; and there will always be gameplay videos online that show the product for exactly what it is.

Taking the stance 'but what if I suffer...' and this justifies to a person that they have A 'RIGHT' or entitlement to STEAL someone's efforts is amoral ~hence, "scary to realize that it's not considered wrong (or even embarrassing) by so many".

These guys wanted to see if this game was a dud. They liked it and bought it. Money went into the developers. Happy days for all.

Many people pirate games and love them. They don't pay for the game and continue to pirate in this fashion. They're the problem not these two.

If it wasn't worth their time I'm sure they would have gotten rid of it.

Makes no difference. A company has the right to not demo their product and not have people rob them to see if they want to pay for ~or not.

[stepsongrapes]

You are trash.
Fucking trash.
What you're doing to the industry is despicable.

Forfeit your right to bitch about DRM, online passes and so on.

You're the reason behind shit like that.

Now that you're done with your self-righteousness and inflating your own self-worth, would you consider actually addressing the OP's point?

Legend of Grimlock would benefit greatly from having a demo. Period. Indie dev or not, it is still a product and would benefit from those things that favor market acceptance of a product. Being indie doesn't make it free from normal concerns. Moreover, indie games are perfect for demos as they typically have smaller engine footprints, making them easy to download, and the indie devs don't spend a ton of marketing to get the word out. Being able to try it would be a huge boon. Personally, I find that indies are the ones I want demos from most because most indie devs are first timers and the range of quality in indie titles varies hugely. For good and for bad, most indies don't have track records to judge.

If the devs decide to take the same self-righteous attitude as you, they'd just be shooting themselves in the foot. OP was very polite, explained his position, and made no excuses for his behavior beyond explaining the factually correct position that he had no way to try out the game to the extent necessary to make an informed buying decision.

As to rights, sure the devs don't have to release a demo. As a business decision, bad idea. Being right doesn't necessarily pay the bills.

[FULLMETALJ]

You are trash.
Fucking trash.
What you're doing to the industry is despicable.

Forfeit your right to bitch about DRM, online passes and so on.

You're the reason behind shit like that.

Now that you're done with your self-righteousness and inflating your own self-worth, would you consider actually addressing the OP's point?


He pirated an indie game, potentially nullifying profits to the developers simply because he couldn't demo the game.

I believe I mentioned that earlier.

[Crashbanito]

Calling out someone who pirates does nothing to combat the problem of piracy. I think that it's fortunate that there are some honest souls out there who will fork over their cash in support.

[FULLMETALJ]

Pirating indie games?

Indie devs aren't being paid by a publisher. Their only income comes from the sales of their game. I don't care if you bought Legend of Grimrock after pirating it, you're still thinking you have the right to steal something just because you can, without a proper cause, just because "you want to try it".

Oh, balls, I did!

[Halk]

He pirated an indie game, potentially nullifying profits to the developers simply because he couldn't demo the game.

It's just as valid (and in this case true) to say he pirated an indie game, increasing the profits to the developers, despite them not bothering with a demo.

[stepsongrapes]

He pirated an indie game, potentially nullifying profits to the developers simply because he couldn't demo the game.

I believe I mentioned that earlier.

That's not addressing the OP's point on the need for a demo, that's you thumping your chest some more about pirating.

Addressing whether Grimlock should have a demo and whether it would benefit from the same is separate from the issue of the OP's pirating.

[Thorgrey]

He pirated an indie game, potentially nullifying profits to the developers simply because he couldn't demo the game.

Had I not been able to try it I would have never bought it. After being burned by awful games and broken promises again and again by games, I make it a point to never buy a game that I did not experience first hand, it's no different than food samples at the grocery store, hearing music on youtube or free samples of tea.

[spreadsheets]

Personally, if a game doesn't look good to a degree and provides no demo version, I just don't buy it and don't pirate it.
It's the devs fucking fault if they think material can convince that really can't do that. And it's their loss.

That said, I think if someone pirates with the aforementioned motivation, it would not be a much different case.
When the person encounters the game, it is the providers responsibility to convince that guy to buy their game.
Be that through very extensive footage, a demo, a very good price or a mixture of those.

If the person in question is not convinced to make a purchase, essentially 2 things can happen.
1.
The customer just walks away and says fuck it.
Pretty undesirable but also pretty likely if the guy is not given enough reason to buy the game.
Maybe he buys the game at some point in time during a sale or when a demo gets released.

2.
The customer pirates.
This is good in one way and bad in another.
It's bad at first because potentially, you just lost a sale.
But it's also good because if your game itself manages to convince, the guy will probably buy it at some point down the line. Probably far earlier than if Number 1 occurred.
And he will tell his friends about how good the game is and that they should check it out.


What I'm trying to say is that in a way, piracy provides a means for poorly marketed products to still get a bunch of sales when the alternative is that the guy in question just doesn't buy your game or (worst case scenario) just stops caring and never even goes back to check on the price at a later point.
The best choice is always to just provide some good way to really test the game for free, but if that's not there, piracy can actually turn "nope not buying" into "this is pretty cool, i'm gonna get it".

As a sidenote, I firmly believe that games who lose their value after one playthrough are flawed and should fix exactly that. If one pirated first time playthrough eliminates most of the motivation a player could have for playing your game, you did something wrong as a developer.