Magic is too cumbersome...

[arbiter7]

I don't mind the magic system as is. However, it would be nice if it remembered your last spell... but that's just me being lazy.

[PiIsExactly3]

For those of you who have problems with casting repetition, just use the AutoHotKey script. It works really well.
It took me about five minutes to download and set up the scripts. I created a "quick cast" button (basic nuke) for each of my mages, and still use the right click ==> select rune for special circumstances.

Sadly, I have been thinking about writing an AutoHotKey script. I want to fight the monsters, not the interface.

[nublard]

There is a thread about one that has a preset one.
Don't need to write anything =0

[Radioman970]

As a whole, the magic system isn't very appealing as is. Like others have said, repeatedly entering the runes isn't a challenge or tactically engaging, it's just a hassle. It's certainly doable, I used two mages on my run through the game and was pretty much relying on their firepower by the end, but I never felt like the magic system was doing anything but getting in my way. If I had some way of either automatically casting the same spell I used previously, then at least the runes would only slow things down when I had to change spells on the fly...which seems reasonable.

As for "it'll take all the challenge out", I don't know if you've noticed, but there's already a cool down on spells, it isn't as if you'd be able to machine gun them one after the other. I'd rather plan for a fight, pick my 'preferred' spell, and then go at it without fussing over random mis-clicks when I'm trying to watch the screen, my other 3 characters, AND my rune display.

The rune system is a good idea, but forcing players to trip over it every time they want to fireball something isn't going to endear it to the masses. It'd be better used as a way for players to be able to rapidly adjust their spells on the fly, rather than a way to hold players back during a frantic fight. Remember that the UI is there to facilitate player interaction with the game, not to frustrate them with tedium.

My advice is move around and actually use some strategy instead of trying to stand there toe to toe, and fight. There is plenty of time to set another spell, and you actually take a lot less damage. Heaven forbid the game should actually take some skills.

Well said...

Not to dis anyone, but it's nice to have to work for something for a change. I think it should be harder to do spells. Arx Fatalis was on the right track... my favorite magic system bar none.

[zeidrich]

I wonder if those people that have concerns about casting magic have the same concerns about jousting, or grid dancing, or whatever you want to call it.

Jousting is a pretty precise activity where you need to be aware of the opponent's movements and timing, you need to know about when in their animation they're going to attack so you can leave your square without being hit. This requires keen observation and precise keyboard control.

Magic is a reasonably precise activity, but the only thing you need to do is click some icons on the screen with the mouse (the quicker, the better). An error can cause a fizzle, or force you to correct a mistake, which could lead to wasting mana or being hit by your monster. It requires precise mouse control.

One of the things I find interesting about the two systems is you can combine them to mitigate the difficulties of both. You can queue your magic spells up while you're not in immediate danger. When you get into range of the target you can effortlessly loose your spell(s). You can then keep a safer distance while waiting for the spells to recharge and be re-entered. On the other hand, if you are using melee attacks, you need to be constantly in the range of attack, and constantly able to avoid an attack before it strikes.

My party is two mages, a fighter and a rogue. My mages queue their spells up prior to combat, and unleash them immediately on my target. The mages' initial volley does a good amount of damage, and then my melee will strike. Then depending on the monster and how much health I have, I'll either retreat and queue up some spells in safety, or dance around the monster with melee attacks. As my keyboard control and knowledge of monster animations improves, I'll be a bit better at the dancing. As my mouse control gets more practiced I'll be a bit better at the casting, and eventually I'll make fewer mistakes when I'm trying to both dance and cast and melee. However, until then if I want to be safest, I'll use spells to open the fight or when I've retreated, otherwise I'll stick to melee and trying to avoid the next hit.

[Halk]

I call it circling

I don't have the same concerns about circling, because it's something that I can do at the same time as everything else, I'm physically able to circle and fight without feeling like I'm doing a test of manual dexterity. My concerns with magic is that it's making my mage such an irritation I'm wondering about 2 DPS thieves in the back row instead. I believe it's a UI flaw.

[Rorrik]

Personally, I've had no trouble watching the screen and selecting runes at the same time. I get a real kick out of quickly thinking what spell to cast next while the mage's cooldown runs. Am I going to run away and hit him with a lightning bolt down the hall after my next fighter one-two, or do I want to stay here and circle and just use a 1 rune lightning, or do I hold him in one place and use a poison cloud. The rune system also makes it really convenient to change if something else comes up mid-plan. Sure, it's not like Halo where you can just look at the screen and press buttons, but 1) what are you supposed to do with a four person party on a key board(except maybe use the number pad, I have no problem with this suggestion), and 2) this is the genre, its a call back to the good old days, but much better done in my opinion.

[zeidrich]

I call it circling

I don't have the same concerns about circling, because it's something that I can do at the same time as everything else, I'm physically able to circle and fight without feeling like I'm doing a test of manual dexterity. My concerns with magic is that it's making my mage such an irritation I'm wondering about 2 DPS thieves in the back row instead. I believe it's a UI flaw.

I wonder why you feel it's a UI flaw. Maybe because it's just so out of keeping with the rest of the interface? I wonder if keyboard control was entirely disabled, and everything was mouse based if it would feel the same way. My mages do a lot more damage than my thief, both up front and over time. The drawback is it's hard to manage keying in spells while moving. Without that I would worry that there'd be too little to differentiate them. I already feel that fighters and rogues are maybe almost too similar.

I wonder, and apologies for the kind of personal question, but do you play MMOs?

[Halk]

I call it circling

I don't have the same concerns about circling, because it's something that I can do at the same time as everything else, I'm physically able to circle and fight without feeling like I'm doing a test of manual dexterity. My concerns with magic is that it's making my mage such an irritation I'm wondering about 2 DPS thieves in the back row instead. I believe it's a UI flaw.

I wonder why you feel it's a UI flaw. Maybe because it's just so out of keeping with the rest of the interface? I wonder if keyboard control was entirely disabled, and everything was mouse based if it would feel the same way. My mages do a lot more damage than my thief, both up front and over time. The drawback is it's hard to manage keying in spells while moving. Without that I would worry that there'd be too little to differentiate them. I already feel that fighters and rogues are maybe almost too similar.

I wonder, and apologies for the kind of personal question, but do you play MMOs?

I feel it's a UI flaw because I'm physically unable to play the game with a mage properly.
If keyboard control was disabled I'd be even less able to play the game.
Everything else in the game has an intuitive interface. I do not accept that it's game mechanics that it's a challenge controlling the mouse to cast a spell in any kind of time. It's game mechanics that the mage is good against groups, is good for a lot of damage but is tired quickly while the rogue does a lot of damage to single opponents, doesn't tire out but you need to move behind them.
I don't know what you're trying to get at with the MMO question. No, I do not. The only MMO I played was Eve, and that was years ago. Before that I did play MUDs which required a great deal of typing.

[sirspikey]

- Magic is NOT for melee (only magic weapons):
- Magic is an arcane discipline, demanding years of study in a library, not a gym. It depends on the proper performance of thaumaturgical gestures at the right moment (the 'clicking' of the rune-glyphs).

Comming from one I'm guessing never went to gym-class...

Even a good meleefighter needs to train for years to be any good. A magician can't fight with swords and vice versa, so that argument doesn't really work...

I don't like the magic combat system either. I get more effect just using my three physical fighter then trying to involve the mage in the combat. Right now he's just a pack mule.

One way is to keep the system like it is but additionally you can imprint a spell to a wand, and only one (1). If you want an other spell imprinted you have to find a new wand. -or staff perhaps, for bonus damage but loosing both hands and the abillity to cast/throw/chop something else with an, otherwise emptyhand.