Dear Devs, great game but need clarification on role of DEX

Talk about anything Legend of Grimrock 1 related here.
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Halk
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Re: Dear Devs, great game but need clarification on role of

Post by Halk »

Dalton wrote:
Halk wrote: I'm finding the accuracy equates to more damage than strength.
Skill gives a lot more accuracy than dexterity does. You'll hardly notice a difference with a really high-skill fighter.

I find strength to be important for front line fighters as it lets them carry that heavy armor, as well as being the party's pack mules, as well as the additional damage on successful hits.

But these arguments can go on forever, and that's what makes it good the way it is. There's no one BEST stat, there's player preference, and picking and choosing what advantages give you the most benefit.

Isn't that much more fun than "Hurr, pump str for fighters, pump dex for rogues, pump will for mages, ez win"?
It's far better, indeed.

As I said though for fighters I look at them as tanks, so I have little or no room for weapon skills, meaning that dex increases both their 'tankiness' and damage output.

On the other hand for my minotaur thief I'm undecided between str and dex. I'm expecting to put at least something into weapon skills, so perhaps I don't need the accuracy so much. However str/dex choice isn't going to be critical for the mino.
zeidrich
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Re: Dear Devs, great game but need clarification on role of

Post by zeidrich »

Hasir wrote: It's not really about being upset at a mistake. Thats part of it sure. But mainly I think people just think the idea of an archer not needing dexterity is kind of stupid.

dex·ter·i·ty/dekˈsteritē/
Noun:
Skill in performing tasks, esp. with the hands.
Synonyms:
skill - adroitness - deftness - knack - cleverness

It's the "rogue skill" for a reason. Don't get me wrong, I sort of like that strength affects archery. I would hate for this game to be streamlined like some sort of bioware trash, but dexterity should certainly have an effect with the offensive power of archery. Maybe it can decrease reload time? I already suggested adding the chance for projectiles to miss their targets, and being that ammo is so scarce accuracy would certainly be important. Perhaps strength could affect reload time and dexterity could effect damage? that would seem logical and both skills would be important and keep the game from being stream lined.

I'm anxious to hear if the devs are willing to look into skill balance. It's something that gets over looked in single player games too often.
I actually had a paragraph about how I thought that the term dexterity was a misnomer, however I deleted it because it didn't matter. It is misleading a bit, if anything maybe agility would be a better term.

I'm personally of the opinion that skill balance shouldn't be a priority. Some of the fun of a single player game is finding out which skills are good, and which skills are less good. If hand to hand for instance is moderately OK, but not as good as daggers for a rogue, that could mean that later I could play the game with a hand to hand rogue for a bit of an extra challenge.

I don't think "it's stupid" or "in other games dex affects bow damage" are good arguments for changing it though. The only good argument to change it would be that the game would be better if dex affected bow damage. I don't think it would, primarily because strength has a pretty limited affect on bow damage to begin with, (so you don't really lose out on much) because ranged weapons are pretty good without the change, and because dex is actually a pretty good stat despite not affecting bow damage.

If they were to change the word "Dexterity" to Agility instead, or change it to Nimbleness, I would think that's probably OK (but unnecessary). I mean, nimbleness wouldn't imply dealing additional damage with anything, but it might better describe being able to avoid blow and pass opponent defenses. But gamewise, it doesn't matter. You learn by reading the tooltips or the forums or whatever, that dexterity increases dodge and melee accuracy, then you deal accordingly.

I'm not even defending it as a good decision, I'm just saying that stating it's wrong because many other games do it differently is a poor reason. Arguing that it's poorly described is an already argument, but I do think the tooltips were pretty explicit on character creation. And ultimately making a mistake on character creation will barely affect your character, as the majority of your power will come from skills and items, not what stat you decided to put 6 points into instead of another.
jfunk
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Re: Dear Devs, great game but need clarification on role of

Post by jfunk »

Good lord, this is all so irrelevant. The only actual complaint here is "it's not D&D, so I made a mistake on my character". Oh well, move on. If you really want to, re-roll. There's nothing broken about the system because they balanced it according to their rules.

All you guys saying "dex should do this" or "we should be able to dual wield" are missing the point. The game is balanced for its current system. You wan them to add dual wield? They'll just have to nerf damage to compensate. Your character is going to do a certain amount of damage regardless, because changing that would upset the balance.

What's important is that the mechanics work. The rest is just semantics.

You're arguing over appearances and nothing else.
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Halk
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Re: Dear Devs, great game but need clarification on role of

Post by Halk »

I agree with you on dex.

However on dual wielding there's something not quite right. If you look at the inventory screen of a character under their hands there are numbers, on a fighter the numbers are far apart on a thief they are closer together. To me that looks as if the thief is ambidextrous, while the fighter is not. So it seems to me that there should be something going on with dual wielding.

However with regards to balance I don't feel rogues need any boosting, they're working very well.
yossarian161
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Re: Dear Devs, great game but need clarification on role of

Post by yossarian161 »

what this person said, 100%
jfunk wrote:Good lord, this is all so irrelevant. The only actual complaint here is "it's not D&D, so I made a mistake on my character". Oh well, move on. If you really want to, re-roll. There's nothing broken about the system because they balanced it according to their rules.

All you guys saying "dex should do this" or "we should be able to dual wield" are missing the point. The game is balanced for its current system. You wan them to add dual wield? They'll just have to nerf damage to compensate. Your character is going to do a certain amount of damage regardless, because changing that would upset the balance.

What's important is that the mechanics work. The rest is just semantics.

You're arguing over appearances and nothing else.
Dalton
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Re: Dear Devs, great game but need clarification on role of

Post by Dalton »

yossarian161 wrote:what this person said, 100%
jfunk wrote:Good lord, this is all so irrelevant. The only actual complaint here is "it's not D&D, so I made a mistake on my character". Oh well, move on. If you really want to, re-roll. There's nothing broken about the system because they balanced it according to their rules.

All you guys saying "dex should do this" or "we should be able to dual wield" are missing the point. The game is balanced for its current system. You wan them to add dual wield? They'll just have to nerf damage to compensate. Your character is going to do a certain amount of damage regardless, because changing that would upset the balance.

What's important is that the mechanics work. The rest is just semantics.

You're arguing over appearances and nothing else.
Double quoted for truth.
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war_dog
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Re: Dear Devs, great game but need clarification on role of

Post by war_dog »

Can anyone link to the post where the dev said ranged is STR based ?

i quote from another thread :
Ferned wrote:Due to many confusing posts i made 2 rouges with different stats but same skills. So as it seems missile weapons and daggers attack is based on ddext, throwing are based in strenght.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1390

I made my own test with a crossbow, that too showed that my dex guy dealt a lot more dmg than my str guy did.

I agree with "jfunk" but i want to know so i can spec my ranged correctly.
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Jack Dandy
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Re: Dear Devs, great game but need clarification on role of

Post by Jack Dandy »

Wardog- weapon skill affects damage much more then character skill. Remember that.
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war_dog
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Re: Dear Devs, great game but need clarification on role of

Post by war_dog »

ty :)
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Darklord
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Re: Dear Devs, great game but need clarification on role of

Post by Darklord »

Incidentally, my dodgy rogue is now dodging loads, not sure if I hit a certain threshold as originally he got hit a lot.

Daniel.
A gently fried snail slice is absolutely delicious with a pat of butter...
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