[Open / Signup] One Room Round Robin 3 - Calling All Modders

[minmay]

I don't think I can say anything useful about the final boss since it's only partly implemented. The concept seems fine, would be nice to have a custom model+animations though, especially with the wizard model already appearing in 2 other rooms.

[Jgwman]

Definitely would; not something I am able to do myself.

The majority of the fight should be playable, though I didn't make phase transitions very clear yet.

Basically works like this:

1. Fight in first part of room
2. Final boss reaches 50% HP
3. Teleports away; portcullises above ladders open
4. Boss ambushes via chest->mimic->boss transformation
5. Party continues down the next ladder (this is the part that needs works - if the party continues to fight without descending, it doesn't really make sense)
6. Boss flees to far room and shuts its portcullises
7. Party accesses teleporter in water
8. Solving time travel puzzle allows portcullises to be opened, at which point final phase of the boss can be engaged
9. Upon killing it, secret door opens to portal and final chamber/mod end

Did you experience all of this? I'd imagine somewhere around step 4 or 5 what you needed to do became vague and this needs changing, but there is stuff already implemented afterwards.

[minmay]

For me it worked like this:
1. Fight in first part of room
2. Final boss reaches 50% HP
3. Teleports away; portcullises above ladders open
4. Boss ambushes via chest->mimic->boss transformation
4.1. Software Failure: #bw_boss_script.script:57: attempt to index global 'bw_mimic_chest_1' (a nil value)

Do you have an opinion on these parts of my post?

Either way, the most important thing to decide on here is the desired power level. The highest damage output in Isle of Nex by far is from light weapons characters. I think this level of damage output is good for this mod, and the rest of the weapon classes can be adjusted to match it (this is what I did in MinAssets, except for throwing weapons). Because the mod is somewhat longer than Isle of Nex, it might be most appropriate to give out equivalents to the top tier standard weapons (moonblade, bone blade, cutlass) in or slightly before twisted forest and give slightly better ones in or slightly before dark tower. Although, this is confounded by the best weapons in Isle of Nex being obtainable quite early.

I have the appropriate art assets finished to make a room in the town outskirts (there's a big chunk of free space), if another room is wanted. And it will be way smaller than
3 MB this time.
I also have a third room concept that I'd be happy to implement, which would fit almost anywhere.

If these additional rooms are wanted I can start on them at any time.

[Jgwman]

Ok, bug where the pressure plates are being re-enabled. Easy enough to fix.

Either way, the most important thing to decide on here is the desired power level. The highest damage output in Isle of Nex by far is from light weapons characters. I think this level of damage output is good for this mod, and the rest of the weapon classes can be adjusted to match it (this is what I did in MinAssets, except for throwing weapons). Because the mod is somewhat longer than Isle of Nex, it might be most appropriate to give out equivalents to the top tier standard weapons (moonblade, bone blade, cutlass) in or slightly before twisted forest and give slightly better ones in or slightly before dark tower. Although, this is confounded by the best weapons in Isle of Nex being obtainable quite early.

You're just suggesting to rebalance the loot around the highest (or close to highest) tier at approx. Twisted Forest? That's fine with me. Obviously it needs rebalancing since it was essentially done independently per room, and I don't have much of an opinion of how exactly we balance it. If that difficulty feels right to you, I'll take your word on it. A friend who was testing found the majority of the mod to be fairly easy combat wise (on normal, I believe) as it currently is (with a heavy/light/ranged/mage party), so having the high tier weapons available *before* the Forest would be too much IMO, but within is fine.

I have the appropriate art assets finished to make a room in the town outskirts (there's a big chunk of free space), if another room is wanted. And it will be way smaller than
3 MB this time.
I also have a third room concept that I'd be happy to implement, which would fit almost anywhere.

I'm assuming you mean the southwest corner of Town East? Fine with me, if you think it'll fit. I don't necessarily think another room is needed, assuming that the scheduled rooms actually end up implemented, but I don't see why it hurts either. That applies to your third room, too.

I'd say if you believe the between areas lacking decoration is a significant issue, that should probably have precedence (though you probably have enough time or you wouldn't have offered). Personally, I don't see this as a significant issue, but I'm obviously not offended by improvements.

Gonna fix that final boss issue and replace the (my) earlier revisions with the fixed version, since they have no purpose.

[AndakRainor]

So I integrated my room in the R034 version, and noted the few objects that need specific id after copy/paste. I am ready, just let me know when the drop box version will be available and I will do it again (I won't need a week!).

I would like to have more free time to contribute to more rooms but I don't think that would be possible for now...

My room has lots of high level items in it. I chose them among items not present in the rest of the dungeon (item spawned with id ending with "_1"). Feel free to change anything with those loots if you think it is too much / not enough / not balanced. I have just 2 custom swords I would like to keep there, one for tanks with vitality damage bonus and one for mages with willpower.

Also, if you are still interested, I could start making an adaptation and selection of my spells pack to add it to the project.

Edit: ideally, I prefer when a maximum of different character builds are viable or even better similar in power in a game. So Better spells and two hand weapons, better firearms, better experience for "Toorum mode" would be very nice (or anything else needed with that goal in mind).

[Jgwman]

Nice, Andak. No need for you to implement it again - just upload your version of R034 and I'll add my fixes back to that.

Also, if you are still interested, I could start making an adaptation and selection of my spells pack to add it to the project.

Sounds good; it might be cool to stock the Hall of Mages with the (or some of the) spell scrolls for the modded scrolls, as an alternative to placing each one individually.

[AndakRainor]

Done!

[minmay]

Either way, the most important thing to decide on here is the desired power level. The highest damage output in Isle of Nex by far is from light weapons characters. I think this level of damage output is good for this mod, and the rest of the weapon classes can be adjusted to match it (this is what I did in MinAssets, except for throwing weapons). Because the mod is somewhat longer than Isle of Nex, it might be most appropriate to give out equivalents to the top tier standard weapons (moonblade, bone blade, cutlass) in or slightly before twisted forest and give slightly better ones in or slightly before dark tower. Although, this is confounded by the best weapons in Isle of Nex being obtainable quite early.

You're just suggesting to rebalance the loot around the highest (or close to highest) tier at approx. Twisted Forest? That's fine with me. Obviously it needs rebalancing since it was essentially done independently per room, and I don't have much of an opinion of how exactly we balance it. If that difficulty feels right to you, I'll take your word on it. A friend who was testing found the majority of the mod to be fairly easy combat wise (on normal, I believe) as it currently is (with a heavy/light/ranged/mage party), so having the high tier weapons available *before* the Forest would be too much IMO, but within is fine.

Maybe an example layout would help. Here are the Isle of Nex light weapons sorted by ascending damage output at 18 strength/dexterity when dual-wielded by a non-rogue with light weapons 5; this doesn't account for monster defenses and pierce but that usually won't matter much:

SpoilerShow

legionary_spear 4.2
branch 4.2
quarterstaff 4.65
baton 4.6666666666667
hand_axe 4.6666666666667
machete 5.2
zarchton_harpoon 5.4
pickaxe 5.4666666666667
rapier 5.8235294117647
tribal_spear 6
venomfang_pick 6.8
dagger 6.96
backbiter 7
lightning_blade 7.6216216216216
fire_blade 7.6216216216216
long_sword 7.6216216216216
ethereal_blade 8.25
venom_edge 8.4
sickle_sword 10.744186046512
fist_dagger 11.333333333333
cutlass 11.454545454545
bone_blade 11.470588235294
serpent_blade 11.485714285714
moonblade 12.214285714286

So the loot distribution based on this would look something like:
Catacombs/Graveyard: nothing better than hand_axe
Bog/Outskirts: nothing better than tribal_spear
Asylum: nothing better than long_sword
Twisted Forest: nothing better than sickle_sword
Dark Tower: nothing better than moonblade
Of course this list is not perfectly accurate because of protection, accuracy, pierce (venomfang pick isn't THAT bad), and strength being more readily available than dexterity, but you can see the point.
This is quite a lot harsher than Isle of Nex, which gives you a dagger almost immediately and bone blade about a quarter of the way into the game!

One that places moonblade at twisted forest instead, and used new weapons (like Ruin) in dark tower, would look close to:
Catacombs/Graveyard: nothing better than machete
Bog/Outskirts: nothing better than long_sword
Asylum: nothing better than sickle_sword
Twisted Forest: nothing better than moonblade
Dark Tower: nothing better than [imaginary weapon that would have a value of a little under 15]

I have the appropriate art assets finished to make a room in the town outskirts (there's a big chunk of free space), if another room is wanted. And it will be way smaller than
3 MB this time.
I also have a third room concept that I'd be happy to implement, which would fit almost anywhere.

I'm assuming you mean the southwest corner of Town East? Fine with me, if you think it'll fit. I don't necessarily think another room is needed, assuming that the scheduled rooms actually end up implemented, but I don't see why it hurts either. That applies to your third room, too.

I'd say if you believe the between areas lacking decoration is a significant issue, that should probably have precedence (though you probably have enough time or you wouldn't have offered). Personally, I don't see this as a significant issue, but I'm obviously not offended by improvements.

Yeah, I meant that corner and I'm happy to do both, just need to be told when. And I thought that in addition to decoration the in-between areas should have a few puzzles and fights, like in ORRR2. In particular I want to fix the arena.

And hey, I have a spell pack too! Also re: spell scrolls, I'm gonna go ahead and leak this.

Code: Select all

local spellbookInit = function(self, champion, slot)
	if self.go.item:getUiName() == "UNINITIALIZED" then
		local title = self.go.spells:getScrollText():match("^[^\n]*")
		if title then
			self.go.item:setUiName(title)
			local list = self.go.spells:getScrollText():sub(title:len()+2)
			if list then
				list = list:gsub("[\t\n]","")
				self.go.spells:setScrollText(list)
				list = list:split(';')
				self.go.item:setWeight(0.3+math.floor(#list/2)*0.1)
				self.go.spellscrollitem:setSpell(list[1])
				return
			end
			Console.warn(string.format("spellbook %s has no spells specified!",self.go.id))
		else
			Console.warn(string.format("spellbook %s has no title specified!",self.go.id))
		end
	end
end
local spellbookCleanup = function(self)
	if self.go.map then
		self.go:removeComponent("script")
		self.go:removeComponent("controller")
		self.go:removeComponent("timer")
		if self.go.spells:getScrollText():count(";") == 0 then
			self.go:removeComponent("usableitem")
		end
	end
end
defineObject{
	name = "g1_spellbook",
	baseObject = "base_item",
	components = {
		{
			class = "Model",
			model = "assets/models/items/tome.fbx",
			material = "g1_spellbook",
		},
		{ -- Because this isn't named "scrollitem" it won't be displayed to the player
		-- The first line is the name to give the book. The second line is the list of
		-- spells the book contains, separated by semicolons. The order the spells are
		-- specified in the list is the order they will be in the book. Tabs and
		-- newlines in the spell names are ignored, but SPACES ARE NOT (this is because
		-- people often define spells with spaces in the names...blame those people)
			class = "ScrollItem",
			name = "spells",
			scrollText = "Larry's Guide to Fire\nfireburst;fireball;fire_shield;meteor_storm",
		},
		{
			class = "SpellScrollItem",
			spell = "ice_shards", -- Just make this any valid spell; it will be overwritten immediately by the spell list
		},
		{
			class = "Item",
			uiName = "UNINITIALIZED",
			gameEffect = "Right-click to turn page",
			gfxAtlas = "mod_assets/g1/items/icons.tga",
			gfxIndex = 26,
			weight = 0.4,
			--onInit = spellbookInit,
		},
		{
			class = "UsableItem",
			onUseItem = function(self, champion)
				playSound("map_turn_page")
				local list = self.go.spells:getScrollText():split(';')
				local curSpell = self.go.spellscrollitem:getSpell()
				if curSpell == list[#list] then -- wrap around
					self.go.spellscrollitem:setSpell(list[1])
				else
					self.go.spellscrollitem:setSpell(list[table.indexOf(list,curSpell)+1])
				end
				return false
			end,
		},
		{
			class = "Script",
			source = "self.go.controller:activate()",
		},
		{
			class = "Controller",
			onActivate = spellbookInit,
		},
		{
			class = "Timer",
			timerInterval = 0,
			onActivate = spellbookCleanup,
		},
	},
}

You can put any number of spells in the book.

[AndakRainor]

to Minmay:
Do you refer to the 8 spells of your shared assets? I must admit, I did not try that part of your work yet and focused on the rest, but I will have a look at them. May be we can integrate both our spells?

to every one:
There will be a few points to discuss about the spell system to make something coherent;
- Do you want to limit spell learning to players who find the scrolls, or let them cast anything from the beginning of the mod?
- What do you think of the spell power scaling with willpower in regard to the combat balance fixes Minmay proposes?
- A few spells I have may or may not be puzzle breakers as for example the water breathing spell. I will have to ask you about a few similar spells if you wish to include them or not.

[minmay]

Water breathing and air cushion won't break any puzzles currently in orrr3 (and are unlikely to break any future ones, I'd say). The item enchantment, teleportation, all shall fall, swap, and transfer spells could break a lot of things though.

I made my spell pack without looking at yours, so we're even