[Resolved] Legal question - Releasing Source Files

[DesperateGames]

Hello All,

I'm planning to release the source files for my mod "Prison Ward". I was about to upload it when I stumbled across the asset pack Terms and conditions:

http://www.grimrock.net/modding/modding ... age-terms/

These are perfectly fine, unless this one:

You may only modify or redistribute those original or modified Legend of Grimrock game assets (this includes, but is not limited to, software, code, Lua files, graphics, writing and audio) that we have explicitly released for creating Legend of Grimrock mods. The redistributed assets must be contained in a package file (.dat file) generated by the Dungeon Editor. Any other use, commercial or non-commercial, for these assets is forbidden. From time to time we may update the contents of the asset pack. Therefore you may not redistribute or mirror the asset pack or any of the assets contained within, expect as packaged into a mod as explained above.

When I read this correctly, I would not be allowed to put all my dungeon files in a simple ZIP-File and distribute it this way, because files within my dungeon are based on files from the asset pack.

I could remove all "questionable" files from the zip before publishing it, but I would like to keep them if possible so that other people can a) run the dungeon from within the editor and b) can use all assets etc. I created for their own dungeons.

Can somebody please clarify whether I am allowed to publish my dungeon "as is" or if I have to remove all files that were built upon the asset pack?

[BuzzJ]

Are you retexturing LOG assets, or using LOG textures on custom meshes? In either case, direct your mod scripts to the appropriate .fbx (.model) or texture within the "assets" folder (instead of adding any LOG assets into "mod assets folder) [ie "assets/textures/env/temple_wall_dif.tga",].

This avoids releasing any LOG assets which you don't need to anyway since everyone already has them in "assets" which is a locked, hardcoded "folder that really isn't a folder but the game's scripts think it is". Its subdirectories are exactly as they appear in the asset pack.

Hope this helps, ask if needs clarification. This is not an AH or official response, just friendly community help.

edit: you need to clarify what "based on" means

[BuzzJ]

interestingly this line from the rules

"To make sure that we have full freedom to develop games, we would like to emphasize that we retain the rights to use any ideas from mods. This doesn’t, however, mean that we are interested in harvesting ideas from mods but that our possibilities to further develop Legend of Grimrock or similar games would be severely limited if we couldn’t use any ideas similar to those found in mods."

Is actually inapplicable in the USA. I think it only applies in places like Germany or other similarly structured copyright countries. In the USA ideas are not copyright-able, only actual things are. Ideas are only patentable, GOOD LUCK patenting a pure idea. EVEN MORE LUCK actually enforcing such a patent against anyone ever.

[msyblade]

This concept is as simple as we all hoped it would be. You are free and welcome to use LoG assets in your mod. You are free to use and distribute the asset pack, as long as it is contained in a LoG mod. You're fine, GO GO GO! There is no concern involved with using these assets, unless you are making your own game (Hi Diarmuid!) and steal their stuff. You're not, they like that you take the time to extend the life of LoG with your talent. So keep on keeping on, The community and AH are happy and proud to have you helping the cause of driving sales. The only thing we could do better, other than use the tools the fine gentlemen at AH have provided us, is yell from a mountaintop, how great this game (and community) is. Making mods is the 2nd best effort we can make (Not an official response, just community help on gaining perspective). Where this would be an issue is, if you ripped some models or textures from say, Skyrim, and have those stolen assets in your source files. Then, Bethesda could take issue with your practices, but not AH. We (and they) are glad to have YOU as an asset!

Hope this helps!

[DesperateGames]

Thanks for the quick response!

edit: you need to clarify what "based on" means

By "based on" I mean that I took something (mostly models / textures) from the asset pack and modified them to fit my needs. Some examples (Click for larger image):



The small pillars holding the orbs in this room were created by "shrinking" the original altar model from the asset pack and editing the textures. The pillar also has some custom coding to accept only orbs to be put upon.



Here the "goo" on the floor was created by taking the original slime model and copying it several times so it gives the impression of slime lying around on the floor.



And here the original door model was opened a little bit and I took the tentacles and rotated them.

Just some examples, there are many more within my dungeon. This was what I meant with "are based on" the asset pack. This is why I would like to keep the modified asset pack models and textures as they are so anyone can easily grab them and use them for their own mod. Your tip was valuable as well as this would be a possbility for models that were simply retextured. But even in this case it would be more comfortable for other users if everything in the zip file is left as it appears when playing the .dat file.

[DesperateGames]

Wow you guys are fast...2 new posts while I was still at my first reply

Is actually inapplicable in the USA. I think it only applies in places like Germany or other similarly structured copyright countries. In the USA ideas are not copyright-able, only actual things are. Ideas are only patentable, GOOD LUCK patenting a pure idea. EVEN MORE LUCK actually enforcing such a patent against anyone ever.

Yes I think they only put this in to prevent any modder to complain that they have "stolen" his idea from mod XYZ and put it in Grimrock 2.

This concept is as simple as we all hoped it would be....

Thanks for your perspective on this msyblade! This perfeclty covers my perception of "how it should be" for this topic. I assume however, that it could be that there MIGHT be some legal issue that we are not fully aware of and this is why AH put it down like this in the Terms and Conditions. It would be nice to get some official statement on this by AH.....does anybody have a "Summon Antti"-Scroll left in their inventory by chance?

[antti]

When I read this correctly, I would not be allowed to put all my dungeon files in a simple ZIP-File and distribute it this way, because files within my dungeon are based on files from the asset pack. I could remove all "questionable" files from the zip before publishing it, but I would like to keep them if possible so that other people can a) run the dungeon from within the editor and b) can use all assets etc. I created for their own dungeons.Can somebody please clarify whether I am allowed to publish my dungeon "as is" or if I have to remove all files that were built upon the asset pack?

We have a solution for you: We, Almost Human Ltd, grant you DesperateGames the permission to redistribute modified Grimrock assets with the "Prison Ward" mod source files.

The original intention of the term was to limit the chance that the assets based on our materials would not start circulating on the net on their own without people realizing that they aren't free to use in any project (besides Grimrock mods of course) and that there would be one official source where the original assets are acquired. If more people find this term problematic, we can take a look if we could revise the terms so that they would be more compatible with the way this community operates.

interestingly this line from the rules"To make sure that we have full freedom to develop games, we would like to emphasize that we retain the rights to use any ideas from mods. This doesn’t, however, mean that we are interested in harvesting ideas from mods but that our possibilities to further develop Legend of Grimrock or similar games would be severely limited if we couldn’t use any ideas similar to those found in mods."Is actually inapplicable in the USA. I think it only applies in places like Germany or other similarly structured copyright countries. In the USA ideas are not copyright-able, only actual things are. Ideas are only patentable, GOOD LUCK patenting a pure idea. EVEN MORE LUCK actually enforcing such a patent against anyone ever.

I think this is a misinterpretation of our intention with this term. We do not want to try to claim the copyright for ideas but we reserve the right to use any ideas presented by the modding community. The intention is that if a member of the community comes up with an idea they need to acknowledge that we might, probably by coincidence, use a similar idea in Grimrock 2 for instance. Of course this goes both ways too: the modding community is totally free to use and refine ideas we present in our games. Like you said, ideas generally can't be copyrighted and this term is there just to emphasize that.

I hope this clarifies this a little bit but if there's any suggestions on how to make the wording possibly less confusing, reply on this thread or PM me.

[BuzzJ]

edit: First off those are awesome mods!

I think this is a misinterpretation of our intention with this term. We do not want to try to claim the copyright for ideas but we reserve the right to use any ideas presented by the modding community. The intention is that if a member of the community comes up with an idea they need to acknowledge that we might, probably by coincidence, use a similar idea in Grimrock 2 for instance. Of course this goes both ways too: the modding community is totally free to use and refine ideas we present in our games. Like you said, ideas generally can't be copyrighted and this term is there just to emphasize that.

Its not a misinterpretation. I was only pointing out that in the case of either AH or some mod author coming up with, lets say, lets assume, the new idea of "water falls from a pit and floods a level causing damage to the party" (kudos to anyone actually implementing this in LoG [captive 1992 had it]), or vice cersa, and either AH or mod author took issue with either one using the idea, neither one would prevail in any US court for either injunction or damages. (yes, this paragraph is confusing, but accurate)

The phrase is a useful guidestone, written in clear language that expresses "sentiment" and "intent", its just (USA) legally meaningless. Its good that its there so people don't get a mistaken idea, its just not binding on anyone.

It was totally off-topic and unnecessary in this discussion. But its early morning here so yeah.

[antti]

I think this is a misinterpretation of our intention with this term. We do not want to try to claim the copyright for ideas but we reserve the right to use any ideas presented by the modding community. The intention is that if a member of the community comes up with an idea they need to acknowledge that we might, probably by coincidence, use a similar idea in Grimrock 2 for instance. Of course this goes both ways too: the modding community is totally free to use and refine ideas we present in our games. Like you said, ideas generally can't be copyrighted and this term is there just to emphasize that.

Its not a misinterpretation. I was only pointing out that in the case of either AH or some mod author coming up with, lets say, lets assume, the new idea of "water falls from a pit and floods a level causing damage to the party" (kudos to anyone actually implementing this in LoG [captive 1992 had it]), or vice cersa, and either AH or mod author took issue with either one using the idea, neither one would prevail in any US court for either injunction or damages. (yes, this paragraph is confusing, but accurate)

The phrase is a useful guidestone, written in clear language that expresses "sentiment" and "intent", its just (USA) legally meaningless. Its good that its there so people don't get a mistaken idea, its just not binding on anyone.

It was totally off-topic and unnecessary in this discussion. But its early morning here so yeah.

Alright yeah, you are indeed correct. Thanks for the clarification

[DesperateGames]

We have a solution for you: We, Almost Human Ltd, grant you DesperateGames the permission to redistribute modified Grimrock assets with the "Prison Ward" mod source files

That's what I call a solution! Thanks for the clarification antti, it is great to have an official statement on this! I already assumed you / AH would allow this, but you can never be sure when it comes to legal mumbo-jumbo. Thanks again, I will upload now and start a fresh topic to explain what is included in the dungeon for my fellow modders.