Please fix the shadow color banding problem. Thank you. :)

[grim_stoner]

I've registered just to revive this thread because I have something new to contribute.

I just started playing Grimrock and I'm suffering from the same issue as the OP (and I use AMD, so it's not OP's NVIDIA). My graphics drivers are up to date. I've even tried beta drivers and 2yo drivers but the problem (and "solution") is the same with each.

I also know it's not a monitor problem, which is why I'm here. I found if I change the Rendering Quality in-game from High to Low, the color problem is gone! Unfortunately, other nice visual effects are also gone, so it's not really a solution.

I took 2 screenshots from the same location with different settings and saved them as lossless .png for good measure:

Rendering Quality: "High"


Rendering Quality: "Low"


If you can't see the difference in these screenshots, I daresay your monitor need a tweak/upgrade.

Still, there are other ways to observe the differences in these images, if you want:

SpoilerShow

The file size of the "Low" setting image (nice coloring) is almost double the file size of the "High" setting image (poor coloring). They were both saved with the exact same settings, but "Low" has more color information.

Use photo editing software like Photoshop to increase brightness of both images by 150 in Photoshop (don't use Legacy).

Use something like AHK's Window Spy to read color values under your cursor. Hover across the dark areas of each image. "High" has more flat black (0x000000) because it fails to render dark gradients, causing the color values jump more from area to area (like 0x000000 to 0x000008). Try the same with "Low" and the color values change more gradually.

Lowering monitor brightness is a not a good solution here. If you make dark blue (0x000008) appear as one step away from black (0x000000), you're missing out on 87.5% of the color that should be there.

I hope this gets fixed, but I'm afraid I can't wait for that. I really need to get out of this tower - half way there!

[Dr.Disaster]

I also know it's not a monitor problem, which is why I'm here. I found if I change the Rendering Quality in-game from High to Low, the color problem is gone! Unfortunately, other nice visual effects are also gone, so it's not really a solution.

I took 2 screenshots from the same location with different settings and saved them as lossless .png for good measure:

SpoilerShow

Rendering Quality: "High"


Rendering Quality: "Low"

If you can't see the difference in these screenshots, I daresay your monitor need a tweak/upgrade.

If Rendering Quality "High" produces results on your end that are even worse then Rendering Quality "Low" it's neither the game nor any monitor. It's either your gfx card failing the game's hardware requirements or a faulty system installation i.e. bad, missing or old driver/direct x/visual c++ redistributable.

I remade your pic in the editor and took my own screen shots:

Rendering Quality: "High"
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f ... =309420901

Rendering Quality: "Low"
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f ... =309420975

[grim_stoner]

Dr.Disaster, thanks for reproducing the issue. Your images show the exact same color problem I see in mine. There is far less color depth in the dark areas of your High image.

Try brightening your monitor or the images equally just to see the difference. I'm not saying monitors should be that bright, just that it will help exaggerate the issue, to prove there is a loss of color depth with high rendering quality.

[Dr.Disaster]

Dr.Disaster, thanks for reproducing the issue. Your images show the exact same color problem I see in mine. There is far less color depth in the dark areas of your High image.

Try brightening your monitor or the images equally just to see the difference. I'm not saying monitors should be that bright, just that it will help exaggerate the issue, to prove there is a loss of color depth with high rendering quality.

You mistake render quality difference including present/not present shadows with brightness.
Rendering Quality "Low" does not render shadows while Rendering Quality "High" does, even when shadows are set to "Low".

I don't need to turn up anything to see the difference. You should check your pics instead.
Your "High" pic's quality is not even close to mine. It clearly misses color and thus visibiliy depth which mine does not.

[grim_stoner]

Okay Dr.Disaster, I have turned up brightness on your images for you. Unfortunately they were jpg so there is artifacting, but the color difference is clear. Here are the left sides of your images, each brightened twice to 150 in Photoshop:

SpoilerShow

Render Quality: High


Render Quality: Low

Where there is so much black and dark blue in your High, there is actually visible wall in your Low. Note your brighter areas are equally bright in each image. So this is not a brightness problem. I'm only using brightness to help illustrate the problem in the darkness. High render quality is ruining the color for both of us, and the OP. I would like to see if anyone can produce a screenshot from High without this problem.

I don't think I understand your point about shadow presence. So I have taken new screenshots of a shadowless crate in both render qualities (included a cut-out of my settings for good measure), and applied the same brightness to exaggerate the effect:

SpoilerShow

Render Quality: High


Render Quality: Low

It's really not about shadow. It's about color - dark colors - which includes shadows yes, but also dark textures such as the bottom plank on this crate. That plank should be dark brown as it appears in Low, but in High it's mostly black and dark blue.

[Dr.Disaster]

Okay Dr.Disaster, I have turned up brightness on your images for you. Unfortunately they were jpg so there is artifacting, but the color difference is clear. Here are the left sides of your images, each brightened twice to 150 in Photoshop

Please, spare us photoshoped stuff.

All these "dark colors" you see are rendered shadows.
While the "Low" quality pic appears flat/2D the shadows in "High" quality add depth/3D.

Let me repeat it to you, since you obviously did not get it from my last post:
Rendering Quality "Low" will NEVER render and add shadows! You can not enable it; it's even greyed out when this mode is selected.
Rendering Quality "High" will ALWAYS render and add shadows! You can not disable it; only change the shadow quality.

[grim_stoner]

If blacking out everything below a threshold of darkness adds 3rd dimensional depth, then okay. If it's a feature to skip color ranges (color banding (0x000000 -> 0x000008)) where light trails off, cool beans. Just kidding - I don't accept that point of view.

As for taking images without shadows, it's very simple. For starters, shadows are entities based on light sources, like torches or spells. You'll notice there aren't any in my images. Ambient shading doesn't use light sources, but I didn't have that either. Once you have a light source, all you have to do is not block it. There cannot be a shadow if light is not blocked. Trailing light is not shadow.

And yes, you can remove shadows in High. Setting Shadows to low doesn't mean every shadow is still rendered. Some reduce in quality, others go away - like crates. No more Photoshop nonsense though, you'll have to try this out yourself . Keep render quality High and SSAO off. Set a crate under a torch with Shadows on high. There is a faint, blurry shadow under the crate. Set Shadows to medium. The crate shadow becomes more defined and blocky. Set Shadows to low and the shadow is gone.

Thanks for taking the time to rebuild the scene and screenshot it, though. That helps more than you know. I look forward to other perspectives on this problem.

[Dr.Disaster]

And yes, you can remove shadows in High. Setting Shadows to low doesn't mean every shadow is still rendered. Some reduce in quality, others go away - like crates.

Once again: you can NOT remove shadows when rendering quality is set to "High".

We are not talking single objects like crates, we are talking the entire rendered screen.
Even with Shadows "Low" and SSAO "Off" the difference in depth caused by shadows is very noticable.

Rendering Quality: "High", Shadows "High", SSAO "High"
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f ... =309420901

Rendering Quality: "High", Shadows "Low", SSAO "Off"
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f ... =309458818

Rendering Quality: "Low"
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f ... =309420975


About that shade you can see on an object like a crate: it is created by SSAO, not the Shadows setting.
No matter which Shadow quality level is active, with SSAO "Off" a crate never shows a shade.

[Isaac]

Is this what you mean:

SpoilerShow

It's a dynamic banding effect with the shadows; one that shifts with the camera angle, and is really annoying ~once you see it... so I warn you all, don't look if you don't already know about it... I never noticed it before today, and I already cannot easily ignore it anymore.

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj12 ... 36930a.jpg
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj12 ... 76e57b.jpg

The effect is far more pronounced in realtime than you will see in these Jpegs, but it extends past the shadows when animated; it may well be core to the rendering method. The effect can be lessened with higher resolution ~but once you see it, you don't stop seeing it ~even when lessened.

[Dr.Disaster]

Is this what you mean:

SpoilerShow

It's a dynamic banding effect with the shadows; one that shifts with the camera angle, and is really annoying ~once you see it... so I warn you all, don't look if you don't already know about it... I never noticed it before today, and I already cannot easily ignore it anymore.

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj12 ... 36930a.jpg
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj12 ... 76e57b.jpg

The effect is far more pronounced in realtime than you will see in these Jpegs, but it extends past the shadows when animated; it may well be core to the rendering method. The effect can be lessened with higher resolution ~but once you see it, you don't stop seeing it ~even when lessened.

Not sure ..
regarding the light->dark transition area: it's only there with shadows set to "High" ( http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f ... =309528573 ) , not with "Medium" or "Low" ( http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f ... =309528597 )

regarding the form of the shadow: switching to "Medium" or "Low" the shadow changes into a pretty sharp edged shape; could be caused by the shape of the wall lantern as seen on the floor

Switching to render quality to "Low" elimiates the shadow entirely ( http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f ... =309529758 )